Short Rest Recovery and Daily Endurance.

[Xeviat]

A while back someone had a similar problem, and wanted all of the classes changed to Short rest. That gets tricky with things like single spell slots later on. One recommendation was to simply make everyone long rest, then build adventure days around that. It gets much easier, because you simply multiply all short rest mechanics by 3.

I'm looking at Spell Points divided by 3, fudged to nice numbers. I'm thinking of 2x level, so that the monk's ki is the same as paladin/ranger Spell Points.

Short rest x3 would be he exact opposite of what I want. I'd get more novas and more punishment.


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[Lanliss]

I'm looking at Spell Points divided by 3, fudged to nice numbers. I'm thinking of 2x level, so that the monk's ki is the same as paladin/ranger Spell Points.

Short rest x3 would be he exact opposite of what I want. I'd get more novas and more punishment.


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well, the original idea is that you treat a Long rest as a normal games Short Rest. Then you scale up the encounters, so instead of 2-3 moderate encounters (whatever that may be for your players) You are able to throw out 2-3 strong-deadly encounters, or 4-6 moderate ones, daily (assuming you use "overnight" as a rest). Basically, it doesn't matter if they nova, because they will probably die if they don't .

Sorry if this doesn't help you much, just one of the potential solutions I have seen.

 

[MNblockhead]

The easier solution is to deny long rests. You can give a reason (inhospitable environment usually works) or it can be arbitrary (like 13th Age's full-heal-up after every 4th challenge).

I like this approach, but the first clause in your sentence. I try to stick to RAW because I'm more interested in creating adventures than mechanics and it is also easier if everyone is coming to the table with the same understanding. My home rules have more to do with which classes/races are appropriate for the campaign than changing the rules for swimming, travel, rest, healing, etc.

As DM you control the pacing. You can make it impossible for them to rest and mixing up pacing can keep things interesting--keep the players on their toes.

The Drunkens & Dragons You Tube channel has a good video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMh4ReJxeww&list=PLlSmiQ728Xr1lKFQU1w6Yot5_o3zgvY73&index=26

Hanks style can be a bit over the top. If it turns you off, just be patient through the first minute or so. He advice is sound.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I like this approach, but the first clause in your sentence. I try to stick to RAW because I'm more interested in creating adventures than mechanics...

Nod. I've seen lots of suggestions to change the pacing of a campaign by changing the rules on resting, usually the time requirement (even before 5e presented 'modules' along those lines). You can do that, but it's just moving the problem around a little. Make rests take a long time so your campaign can cover a modest little swath of history, and you can't ever have an intense day within it. So, 'meh' to /changing/ rules, formally like that. And double-meh to 'RAW' in the context of 5e. I mean, the Rules in 5e are Written, Ambiguously, so RAW isn't sticking to 'em it's Ruling on them. Yeah. That's the ticket.

 

[Lanefan]

See, I enjoy tactical combat. By switching to a more short Rest focused recovery, I feel players will be less able to Nova. With short rests (or two short rests) giving the players a near full recovery, I can push the challenge, complexity, and difficulty of combats higher.

I'm a bit confused. Here it looks like you want to speed things up where earlier it seemed you wanted to slow things down.

That said, going by what I quoted here if a short rest or two can fully reload the party they're not going to be less able to nova - quite the opposite, they're going to be able to nova almost every flippin' time!

Lan-"there's always another knock-on effect"-efan

 

[CapnZapp]

Hi friends. After playing 5th for a while, my initial suspicions have proven true. Perhaps it's self fulfilling in a way, or simply from my experience with 3rd and 4th, but I'm not liking the largely long rest recovery system in the game. It has worked incredibly well for highly contained games, such as a dungeon crawl or an explicitly one day adventure (save the village children tonight, or they die at sunrise).

Now, the Fighter, Monk, Rogue, and especially the Warlock show me that the game can be balanced around short rests. I think this could work better for my groups more open games. When time isn't always a concern, having one or two battles in a game day feels like it overpowers the long rest classes (barbarian can always rage, wizard can always fireball).

I tried aiming for 3-4 hard-deadly fights a game day, but it still didn't work out. My players were still apt to use too much in the first fight and then struggle with the last. Yes, this could be "trained out", but my players aren't animals, and I want to run a game that plays the way they want to play it.

Now, if all spellcasters ran off the Warlock's chassis, there's an immediate problem with HP and curing. This can already happen with an MC Bard/Warlock or the Healer feat, but it becomes more of a problem when it applies to everyone. If healers get their spells back on short rest, then it's going to be safe to assume that HP recovery is going to be a lot faster.

Do you think this would be a problem? Would I simply want to vary the timetables of adventures, like have no chance to short rest sometimes? Would exploring some kind of wound system be good (I LOVE the idea of a WP/VP system, but then "cure wounds" needs to be rebranded if it doesn't "cure wounds").

I am looking to use Spell Points and convert the Warlock into Spell Points. I'm also looking to smooth out progressions. Since it's Spell Points divided by 3 as the goal, I may just go with 2 spell points per level and be done with it: with some adjusting, it makes the Monk into a half-caster with no spells known. I think this will avoid part of the warlock's issue of not having Spell slots for low level non-scaling spells.

What do you think?


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This is what I too have identified.

Official adventures are simply not geared towards the official encounter expectation.

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[Ovinomancer]

I don't personally have an issue with the ability recharge mechanics of short/long rests. I don't want to run a game where the players are continually starved of resources, and I vary my encounter 'days' enough that my players don't expect the ability to nova/rest/nova/rest for either mechanic.

But, that said, I do have an issue with the hp recharge at the end of the day because it means that for me to allow my players to have access to abilities, I also have to make it so that there's zero pressure on their hitpoints. So, as a simple fix, I ditched the 'recover all hp on long rest' mechanic and added 'you can spend hitdice as you wish at the end of a long rest'. So, a long rest recharges all abilities, returns 1/2 hit dice, and allows you to spend those hit dice. This means that for short periods, the party is very robust hitpoint wise, and tactically capable, but for longer periods, they have to begin to be watchful on the hitpoint front.

I've just now implemented this, so we'll see how it goes, but I have high expectations.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I'd like to try a story-based or episodic style structure where short and long rests are represented as scene changes where 'time passes'. Every 2, 3 or 4 scene changes is a long rest and the remainder are short rests. And I'd probably tell the players straight up the way the adventure is structured.

The time passed could be short (1 minute) or long (a day or multiple day downtime). It would be closest to the 13th Age example but could vary based on the needs of the story/adventure.

But I expect there would be a lot of pushback so I'd be back to the status quo - too tired to bother playing at all because so many players try to 'game' the system.

 

[Xeviat]

I'm a bit confused. Here it looks like you want to speed things up where earlier it seemed you wanted to slow things down.

That said, going by what I quoted here if a short rest or two can fully reload the party they're not going to be less able to nova - quite the opposite, they're going to be able to nova almost every flippin' time!

Lan-"there's always another knock-on effect"-efan

At no point do I want to speed things up. Far from it. I want more challenging fights. These end up being longer fights. I want characters who can recover faster and get back to fun tactical combat. I also want a system more forgiving to an open world where 6-8 fights a day is ridiculous. I want to make novaing impossible rather ban unadvisable, or at least weaken the nova from hyper to just super.


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[Xeviat]

But I expect there would be a lot of pushback so I'd be back to the status quo - too tired to bother playing at all because so many players try to 'game' the system.

Some players want to "win the game". Others want to play the story. It's one of those things groups need to iron out in the beginning.


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