D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[DEFCON 1]

Sure, they don't need to do anything, and I can make my own stuff, but more we get into that territory, less need there is for me to buy their rules.

(I don't care about this specific issue that much, but in general I have become a bit tired of fixing the work of professionals who expect me to pay for their stuff.)

Then don't buy their stuff.

WotC doesn't care if you... specifically you... buy their stuff. Because they have more than enough other people willing to do so. So they aren't going to cater to you specifically. You of course are free to bemoan that state of affairs... and that pretty much is what almost everyone here on these boards do when they're here-- complain about the stuff WotC is making that the person doesn't like. Personally though... I find discovering solutions to issues to be more worthwhile. Both for my own game... but also (selfishly) more interesting for me to read here on these boards.

I find incessant complaining about WotC with no attempts at actually solving the issues to be tiresome and lame. So I will comment occasionally when I see it... recommending that the person solve their own issue so that they can actually be happy. Or at the very least content. That person can then either try and do so with their game... or what is more likely to happen, quote me and complain back that I'm harshing their ranting buzz.

Which is fair. If someone just wishes to rant, they can. But that doesn't mean they get to rant without response. So if I have to listen to people complaining about issues in their D&D game that are easily solvable, then they have to listen to me tell them that those issues are solvable if they'd just stop wasting their own time.

 

[DEFCON 1]

No one is expecting that the designers change their mind.

But I can still call their decision bad, hardheaded, lazy, and/or chicken.

Yep. And I can still say that I think you're wasting your time doing and that your time could be better served actually making yourself happy.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I'd prefer elves that live above ground and elves that live below.

Elves of the seas and oceans?

 

[DEFCON 1]

I can roleplay a rock. That doesn't mean that I want to. Being able to roleplay it isn't the same as liking it. A half-elf without half-elf mechanics is lipstick on a pig. You are an elf or human, not a half-elf.

Which is why everyone should adapt, incorporate, or invent additional mechanics into their own games so they can get what they want and actually be able to play with it. Rather than not do that and instead just complain that it doesn't exist because WotC hasn't made it yet.

Unless of course the actual truth is that the person doesn't really care about playing it, what they actually enjoy even more is just getting to complain and ripping a corporation a new one. Which I tend to think is usually the case. Cause even if WotC solved one issue for them, they'd just move on to complaining about some other issue cause where's the fun in that?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'd prefer elves that live above ground and elves that live below.

I've never seen any great value in the Drow, but I also have no problem with great variety. Who cares if the game has more elves than you need? Don't use 'em in your game, where it matters.

 

[Micah Sweet]

i know people want there to be complete species mixing, but what are opinions of if half elves/orcs existed as part of the human's subspecies options rather than occupying their own spot in the selection? would that be acceptable as a compromise of inclusion vs redundancy downsizing for people? they get to escape 'pick the human/elf/orc mechanics and just lie about their narrative reskin' swapping out heroic inspiration with a few alternative mechanics to fit their own bloodline's flavour.

I still think Level Up's mixed heritage rules are the way to go.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then don't buy their stuff.

WotC doesn't care if you... specifically you... buy their stuff. Because they have more than enough other people willing to do so. So they aren't going to cater to you specifically. You of course are free to bemoan that state of affairs... and that pretty much is what almost everyone here on these boards do when they're here-- complain about the stuff WotC is making that the person doesn't like. Personally though... I find discovering solutions to issues to be more worthwhile. Both for my own game... but also (selfishly) more interesting for me to read here on these boards.

I find incessant complaining about WotC with no attempts at actually solving the issues to be tiresome and lame. So I will comment occasionally when I see it... recommending that the person solve their own issue so that they can actually be happy. Or at the very least content. That person can then either try and do so with their game... or what is more likely to happen, quote me and complain back that I'm harshing their ranting buzz.

Which is fair. If someone just wishes to rant, they can. But that doesn't mean they get to rant without response. So if I have to listen to people complaining about issues in their D&D game that are easily solvable, then they have to listen to me tell them that those issues are solvable if they'd just stop wasting their own time.

I like to do both.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Which is why everyone should adapt, incorporate, or invent additional mechanics into their own games so they can get what they want and actually be able to play with it. Rather than not do that and instead just complain that it doesn't exist because WotC hasn't made it yet.

Cause even if WotC solved one issue for them, they'd just move on to complaining about some other issue cause where's the fun in that?

How can we possibly have any conversations if all we are doing is providing solutions?

 

[Mecheon]

i know people want there to be complete species mixing, but what are opinions of if half elves/orcs existed as part of the human's subspecies options rather than occupying their own spot in the selection? would that be acceptable as a compromise of inclusion vs redundancy downsizing for people? they get to escape 'pick the human/elf/orc mechanics and just lie about their narrative reskin' swapping out heroic inspiration with a few alternative mechanics to fit their own bloodline's flavour.

That's how Pathfinder 2E does it, and I'd be fine with it

My opposition remains to them taking the place of one of the 10 seperate options at the moment, so being a sub option like the elves is acceptable (plus let's be honest the PHB kinda be needing more of those)

I've never seen any great value in the Drow, but I also have no problem with great variety. Who cares if the game has more elves than you need? Don't use 'em in your game, where it matters.

Before I even knew about Dungeons and Dragons, I knew about Drow. They're popular enough they'll find their way into everything

 

[DEFCON 1]

Close. Race is necessary. Not any particular race, but there has to be at least one race or you have nothing you can play. Since this is D&D, class is also necessary. Like race no particular class is necessary, but there has to be at least one class or you can't interact with the rules properly.

Don't agree. No species is necessary. If mechanics didn't exist, then you would just describe your character as an elf and be "elf-like" while describing what your character was doing as you were playing the game.

After all... when do the "elf mechanics" actually show up in the game that are specifically about being an elf? You get a few spells? You can get the exact same suite of spells though other non-species means. You get proficiency in either Insight, Perception, or Survival? EVERY PC can have those proficiencies-- some even getting all three. Advantage on saving throws versus the Charmed condition? Character get bonuses and advantage on saves all the time for any number of things. The only thing that an "elf" gets mechanically that is actually distinctly an "elf mechanic" is Trance-- and that's a mechanic that almost never actually matters because even when they finish their "4-hour Long Rest"... they still sit around the other 4 hours twiddling their thumbs waiting for the rest of the party to wake up. That character could not have that mechanic and the game would not be any different for them.

So no... nothing about elf mechanics truly does anything to distinguish an elf character from any other character. And while you are playing, none of those mechanics will ever be used to say to anyone in the moment "I'm an elf!" That +2 bonus to your Insight checks from being an elf will be glossed over whenever you are making an Insight check just like gaining that +2 bonus to Perception checks that you got from your Background. Heck... you could swap which game feature gave you your proficiencies in Perception and Insight from Species to Background and you would never be able to tell the difference and the character would still play exactly the same.

So yeah... you think you need these small little mechanics to denote what your species is. And if someone was reading a section in the book that said "These are what an elf has that denote them being an elf"... then it feels like they actually have meaning. But once you add those mechanics to the giant stew that is the mechanical representation of a D&D character... any specificity is lost. And thus you could remove those mechanics and most likely never even notice it.