D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

Just a thought, but given they are still legal & from a PHB, but not in the 2024 PHB, should they s

  • Yes

    Votes: 102 48.6%
  • No

    Votes: 81 38.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 14 6.7%
  • Other explained in comments

    Votes: 13 6.2%


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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Don't agree. No species is necessary. If mechanics didn't exist, then you would just describe your character as an elf and be "elf-like" while describing what your character was doing as you were playing the game.
That's still race. Whether you have racial mechanics or not, you still need to be some sort of race within the game world.
After all... when do the "elf mechanics" actually show up in the game that are specifically about being an elf? You get a few spells? You can get the exact same suite of spells though other non-species means. You get proficiency in either Insight, Perception, or Survival? EVERY PC can have those proficiencies-- some even getting all three. Advantage on saving throws versus the Charmed condition? Character get bonuses and advantage on saves all the time for any number of things. The only thing that an "elf" gets mechanically that is actually distinctly an "elf mechanic" is Trance-- and that's a mechanic that almost never actually matters because even when they finish their "4-hour Long Rest"... they still sit around the other 4 hours twiddling their thumbs waiting for the rest of the party to wake up. That character could not have that mechanic and the game would not be any different for them.

So no... nothing about elf mechanics truly does anything to distinguish an elf character from any other character. And while you are playing, none of those mechanics will ever be used to say to anyone in the moment "I'm an elf!" That +2 bonus to your Insight checks from being an elf will be glossed over whenever you are making an Insight check just like gaining that +2 bonus to Perception checks that you got from your Background. Heck... you could swap which game feature gave you your proficiencies in Perception and Insight from Species to Background and you would never be able to tell the difference and the character would still play exactly the same.

So yeah... you think you need these small little mechanics to denote what your species is. And if someone was reading a section in the book that said "These are what an elf has that denote them being an elf"... then it feels like they actually have meaning. But once you add those mechanics to the giant stew that is the mechanical representation of a D&D character... any specificity is lost. And thus you could remove those mechanics and most likely never even notice it.
You may not need any specific mechanic, but without them the vast majority of us will just go to a different game that provides them. Having mechanics that support your narrative is far more enjoyable for most of us than freeform roleplaying(which still has a few rules).

Some people will be okay with a half-elf not being supported mechanically, but most of us will want our half-elves to have the half-elf mechanics, rather than painting lipstick on a pig(elf or human) and calling the pig a half-elf.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Some people will be okay with a half-elf not being supported mechanically, but most of us will want our half-elves to have the half-elf mechanics, rather than painting lipstick on a pig(elf or human) and calling the pig a half-elf.
And you aren't just using the 5E14 half-elf mechanics in your 5E24 game because...?
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Don't agree. No species is necessary. If mechanics didn't exist, then you would just describe your character as an elf and be "elf-like" while describing what your character was doing as you were playing the game.

After all... when do the "elf mechanics" actually show up in the game that are specifically about being an elf? You get a few spells? You can get the exact same suite of spells though other non-species means. You get proficiency in either Insight, Perception, or Survival? EVERY PC can have those proficiencies-- some even getting all three. Advantage on saving throws versus the Charmed condition? Character get bonuses and advantage on saves all the time for any number of things. The only thing that an "elf" gets mechanically that is actually distinctly an "elf mechanic" is Trance-- and that's a mechanic that almost never actually matters because even when they finish their "4-hour Long Rest"... they still sit around the other 4 hours twiddling their thumbs waiting for the rest of the party to wake up. That character could not have that mechanic and the game would not be any different for them.

So no... nothing about elf mechanics truly does anything to distinguish an elf character from any other character. And while you are playing, none of those mechanics will ever be used to say to anyone in the moment "I'm an elf!" That +2 bonus to your Insight checks from being an elf will be glossed over whenever you are making an Insight check just like gaining that +2 bonus to Perception checks that you got from your Background. Heck... you could swap which game feature gave you your proficiencies in Perception and Insight from Species to Background and you would never be able to tell the difference and the character would still play exactly the same.

So yeah... you think you need these small little mechanics to denote what your species is. And if someone was reading a section in the book that said "These are what an elf has that denote them being an elf"... then it feels like they actually have meaning. But once you add those mechanics to the giant stew that is the mechanical representation of a D&D character... any specificity is lost. And thus you could remove those mechanics and most likely never even notice it.
Another good reason to play Level Up. More interesting heritage mechanics.
 



Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
And you aren't just using the 5E14 half-elf mechanics in your 5E24 game because...?
Because this is a general rules discussions and a lot of tables won't mix the editions. Great if you are at one that does, but it's going to suck big time if you are at one that doesn't.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
If you're more of an improvisational actor than a gamer, then of course the rules will be less important to you. But that is fun for only a subset of players.
Absolutely! But if more people moved towards being improvisational actors when playing RPGs rather than gamers... they ipso facto become happier players when WotC doesn't publish the exact game rules they feel they need because they no longer need them.

No one should ever really complain about the game mechanics of any RPG. Because if game rules are that important to them, they either have hundreds of different RPGs to choose from to play that give them the mechanics they might want... or hundreds of thousands of game rules made by hundreds of thousands of other players that they can borrow and use to make the game they actually want.

The fact that they don't do that though means it's not actually about making themselves happier and their game better... it's about something else. And while I have my personal beliefs about what that is... there's no reason to re-litigate it right now. :)
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Because this is a general rules discussions and a lot of tables won't mix the editions. Great if you are at one that does, but it's going to suck big time if you are at one that doesn't.
What's to discuss? The SRD most likely isn't going to have the half-elf and half-orc. That was determined on like page 1, wasn't it? What's everyone been doing for the next 116 pages? Seems to me it's basically been to just complain. Which again, is completely fine if that's what you want to do... but it's also completely fine that I tell you that I think you've been wasting your time complaining about your problem rather than solving it.
 

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