D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Minigiant]

There is no the lore in this respect. Even if one treats a particular book - say MoP or SpellJammer or whatever - as canonical, a majority of tables at any given time probably didn't even own or have access to those sorts of more esoteric rulebooks.

The lore is a proxy for the DM's power. The DM has the power in the social contract to allow or ban deities unless the group takes that power.

According to D&D 2024, the divine power source is the Astral Plane itself, specifically its alignment planes. So any setting that has the Astral Plane overlap it, has access to the divine power source.

Except when stopped by the Overdiety, Dark Powers, or some other DM proxy.

Either way, the core lore of D&D's base assumption is the gods created the playable species, the creators of the player species, or the process of the creating them unless otherwise described by the setting or the group.

It's one of the things that makes D&D unique on species.

 

[Maxperson]

Except that 5.5 is always used in a negative context and never in positive.

Add to that the wide eyed innocent expression of, “I heard an FLGS owner say 5.5, therefore that proves it’s not a negative “ or the claims of “many” people think this or that way.

No one uses 5.5 edition as a neutral term. That’s already been poisoned by years of edition warring. And I’ll take it a step further. If someone honestly thinks that it will be taken as a neutral term, they would be wrong. It might be meant neutrally but it won’t be taken that way.

That's simply untrue. I've seen it used on these forums in positive and neutral manners. Hell, I've used it those ways myself here.

 

[pemerton]

The lore is a proxy for the DM's power. The DM has the power in the social contract to allow or ban deities unless the group takes that power.

The lore doesn't give the GM any power. A given table may or may not make deities subject to the GM's control.

the core lore of D&D's base assumption is the gods created the playable species, the creators of the player species, or the process of the creating them unless otherwise described by the setting or the group.

It's one of the things that makes D&D unique on species.

Whether or not it's core lore, it doesn't seem that unique to me. It's found in JRRT's work, after all!

 

[Minigiant]

Whether or not it's core lore, it doesn't seem that unique to me. It's found in JRRT's work, after all!

JRRTT's work isn't the lone nor top fantasy media anymore.
And it's lore on gods creating the races isn't the first most thing about when people imagine a media having gods creating the races.

Xs worshipping the X god who created the Xs is primarily a D&D thing.

 

[Yaarel]

The lore is a proxy for the DM's power. The DM has the power in the social contract to allow or ban deities unless the group takes that power. Except when stopped by the Overdiety, Dark Powers, or some other DM proxy.

The "default setting" of 5e is homebrew.

A setting can have everyone be MyLittlePonies transmogrified by the Farrealm, if that is the setting the table wants to play.

A setting can be anything.

Either way, the core lore of D&D's base assumption is the gods created the playable species, the creators of the player species, or the process of the creating them unless otherwise described by the setting or the group.

It's one of the things that makes D&D unique on species.

The 2024 core rules lists ten species. Their descriptions even mention "gods", such as Corellon and Moradin. Presumably, most 5e players will use these ten species along with their lore.

Nevertheless. These ten species are "optional". A setting may or may not refer to them. The 2024 Players Handbook states quite neutrally (page 37): "Choose a species for your character. The following species options are detailed in chapter 4: Aasimar, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goliath, Halfling, Human, Orc, and Tiefling."

A particular 5e campaign may be in a setting that utilizes all, some, or none of these ten optional species. Likewise, the lore of these species is even more rewritable, since the setting itself determines whatever cosmological assumptions are in play. A setting might present the lore about Corellon as one of several myths within elven cultures, with Eberron-style agnosticism. There might be no Elves, or different Elves, or Elves with different lore. Indeed (page 177), a setting might "choose a species from an older book", such as a Half Elf or an Astral Elf, or in Theros without Elves. While the rules require a "species", the species dont need to be any of the 2024 ten.

It depends on the setting.

The default setting is homebrew. EVERY 5e homebrew setting is part of the official "multiverse".

 

[Micah Sweet]

JRRTT's work isn't the lone nor top fantasy media anymore.
And it's lore on gods creating the races isn't the first most thing about when people imagine a media having gods creating the races.

Xs worshipping the X god who created the Xs is primarily a D&D thing.

In your opinion, what is the "top fantasy media"?

 

[Maxperson]

The "default setting" of 5e is homebrew.

A setting can have everyone be MyLittlePonies transmogrified by the Farrealm, if that is the setting the table wants to play.

A setting can be anything.

There is no true default setting, but if there was, it's not homebrew. It would either be the Realms or now in 5.5e Greyhawk. In any case, the rules are not part of a default setting. The core rules are just the game. The setting is what the game is played in.

Nevertheless. These ten species are "optional". A setting may or may not refer to them. The 2024 Players Handbook states quite neutrally (page 37): "Choose a species for your character. The following species options are detailed in chapter 4: Aasimar, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goliath, Halfling, Human, Orc, and Tiefling."

A particular 5e campaign may be in a setting that utilizes all, some, or none of these ten optional species. Likewise, the lore of these species is even more rewritable, since the setting itself determines whatever cosmological assumptions are in play. A setting might present the lore about Corellon as one of several myths within elven cultures, with Eberron-style agnosticism. There might be no Elves, or different Elves, or Elves with different lore. Indeed (page 177), a setting might "choose a species from an older book", such as a Half Elf or an Astral Elf, or in Theros without Elves. While the rules require a "species", the species dont need to be any of the 2024 ten.

It depends on the setting.

True, but this has nothing to do with which races are in 5.5e. Just because a setting change change the default rules, doesn't mean that the default rules are setting.

 

[Yaarel]

There is no true default setting, but if there was, it's not homebrew. It would either be the Realms or now in 5.5e Greyhawk. In any case, the rules are not part of a default setting. The core rules are just the game. The setting is what the game is played in.

True, but this has nothing to do with which races are in 5.5e. Just because a setting change change the default rules, doesn't mean that the default rules are setting.

In interviews, the designers emphasize that the "default setting" is the multiverse, and this multiverse includes every homebrew game. The worlds of each and every DM are part of this default. "All" are welcome.

The 2024 rules specify that species are "options". There are no "default" species in 5e.

This inclusivity of homebrew worlds (and the various official settings) was supposed to be true in 2014, but 2024 will make this inclusivity clearer.

 

[Maxperson]

In interviews, the designers emphasize that the "default setting" is the multiverse, and this multiverse includes every homebrew game. The worlds of each and every DM are part of this default. "All" are welcome.

The 2024 rules specify that species are "options". There are no "default" species in 5e.

This inclusivity of homebrew worlds (and the various official settings) was supposed to be true in 2014, but 2024 will make this inclusivity clearer.

Let me try this a different way.

The rules are like the Astral Plane. They surround and work behind the scenes of all the settings in the multiverse. When you enter a setting, some of the rules might be changed, but no setting can alter the core default rules in a meta way. The settings can only alter them local to themselves. That means that while a setting might include or exclude half-elves, that inclusion or exclusion have no impact on the PHB rules as to whether 5.5e includes half-elves in the rules. It doesn't.

Half-elves do not exist within the 5.5e rules. No setting can change that fact. Not even a setting that has half-elves as a change from the 5.5e default.

 

[Yaarel]

Let me try this a different way.

The rules are like the Astral Plane. They surround and work behind the scenes of all the settings in the multiverse.

True in my games. The Astral Plane is everywhere, whether as mystical thoughtscape in a medievalesque setting or as a matrix of "wetware" linking remote brains together in a near-future setting.

But if I understand correctly, earlier versions of Dragonlance did somehow block access to the Astral Plane, and Eberron and Dark Sun do too, each in their own way. In some of the settings, the Astral Plane never existed in the first place. How the Astral Plane functions for the Magic The Gathering settings is unclear to me. These cosmology settings where there is no Astral Plane are also part of the "multiverse".

When you enter a setting, some of the rules might be changed, but no setting can alter the core default rules in a meta way. The settings can only alter them local to themselves.

Well, yes. Just because there are Half Elves in the Forgotten Realms setting, doesnt imply that Half Elves exist in other settings.

Heh, in my Norse regional setting, Half Elves exist, but the Elves themselves live in the upper atmosphere of the sky, associate with sunlight, and lack darkvision.

That means that while a setting might include or exclude half-elves, that inclusion or exclusion have no impact on the PHB rules as to whether 5.5e includes half-elves in the rules. It doesn't.

The Half Elf in any book, including the Players Handbook, is "optional". A setting may or may not have them. I assume the Forgotten Realms still do. (So far, there is no new mechanics for species miscibility.)

Half-elves do not exist within the 5.5e rules. No setting can change that fact. Not even a setting that has half-elves as a change from the 5.5e default.

Half Elves exist in the 2024 rules, because the 2024 rules explicitly say, players can pick a species from an other book.

Which species are present or not, depends on which setting a campaign is using.

There are no default species.