D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Yaarel]

I was going to ask you your view on monotheism and the 2024 rules.

Same rules as I used for monotheism in 2014. For a monotheistic culture, the deity is "infinite" beyond any aspect of any multiverse. Thus there is no "monotheistic" deity to be found in the Astral Plane. But there can be "saints" and "angels" in the Astral Plane who are in "unity" with the monotheistic concept. Meanwhile, these cultures view the Positive Energy Plane, as an aspect of the divine that is "imminent" within the multiverse. So healing and wellbeing generally are important ethical concerns. D&D rules work normally for monotheistic cultures too.

For animistic cultures, there is only the Material Plane. There are no other planes. In this context, the "Border" Fey, Shadow, and Ethereal, are important because they are the immaterial forces that are part of the Material Plane. The "Deep" if encountered at all is a kind of "illusion", transient dreams. (Note, Ginnungagap means the abyss of delusion, where reality itself is fluid.) In animistic contexts, the D&D Astral Plane would moreso be encounters with language, symbols, what can be put into words, as well as what is beyond words, but all of this thoughtstuff is happening while within the Material Plane. (Óðinn is the sky itself in the Material Plane. His shamanistic visualization of dying on the world tree, is something like an encounter with the linguistic words − runes − of the Astral Plane.)

 

[Scribe]

The ten species are "options".

Yes, the default 5.5 PHB options.

 

[Azzy]

I bet some enterprising individual will probably tackle this on the DM's Guild.

 

[Maxperson]

True in my games. The Astral Plane is everywhere, whether as mystical thoughtscape in a medievalesque setting or as a matrix of "wetware" linking remote brains together in a near-future setting.

But if I understand correctly, earlier versions of Dragonlance did somehow block access to the Astral Plane, and Eberron and Dark Sun do too, each in their own way. In some of the settings, the Astral Plane never existed in the first place. How the Astral Plane functions for the Magic The Gathering settings is unclear to me. These cosmology settings where there is no Astral Plane are also part of the "multiverse".

I expect that the astral is present in all of those places, but is unknown and/or inaccessible. That would include the MtG settings.

Well, yes. Just because there are Half Elves in the Forgotten Realms setting, doesnt imply that Half Elves exist in other settings.

Heh, in my Norse regional setting, Half Elves exist, but the Elves themselves live in the upper atmosphere of the sky, associate with sunlight, and lack darkvision.

That's a cool idea.

The Half Elf in any book, including the Players Handbook, is "optional". A setting may or may not have them. I assume the Forgotten Realms still do. (So far, there is no new mechanics for species miscibility.)

That they are optional for settings is correct. However, it's not really accurate that it's optional in the book. You and I have no ability to decide whether it's in the PHB or not. It's inclusion or exclusion is non-optional. Whether we decide to use half-elves or not doesn't affect whether half-elves are in the game(different from setting). If they are in the PHB, they are in the game no matter what we want for our personal games/settings. The same goes if they are excluded.

Half Elves exist in the 2024 rules, because the 2024 rules explicitly say, players can pick a species from an other book.

I haven't seen that language. Someone in this thread did quote language that did not say that, but rather they assumed that the language meant that players could go back and pick from 5e.

Can you quote the passage that explicitly says that so that I can see it.

There are no default species.

Not to a setting, but to the rules, yes there are. Every race in the 5.5e PHB is a default race for the 5.5e game.

 

[Maxperson]

They should consider putting statements like this in the product, as opposed to a promotional video, if they want it to matter to the bulk of their consumers.

It's probably in the DMG.

 

[Yaarel]

I expect that the astral is present in all of those places, but is unknown and/or inaccessible. That would include the MtG settings.

That is my view too. Wherever anything exists, wherever a conscious mind exists, the Astral Plane exists. The peculiarities, like alignment planes, ethereal plane, elemental planes, fey and shadow, might not exist in other settings − these planes of the "Wheel" might be a particular interconnecting system within one region of the Astral Plane. But the Astral Plane includes anything and anything imaginable. One can travel via the Astral Plane to the Magic The Gathering settings, for example, even if they arent part of the Greyhawk/Realms Wheel cosmology.

That's a cool idea.

I have fun with the skyey elves.

That they are optional for settings is correct. However, it's not really accurate that it's optional in the book.

The book itself says the species are optional. So they are optional.

You and I have no ability to decide whether it's in the PHB or not. It's inclusion or exclusion is non-optional. Whether we decide to use half-elves or not doesn't affect whether half-elves are in the game(different from setting). If they are in the PHB, they are in the game no matter what we want for your personal games/settings. The same goes if they are excluded.

Settings may or may not have Genasi, or may have an other version of Tiefling.

The Aasimar in the game are an "option", which may or may not exist in a setting. Their being in the 2024 Players Handbook has no special "canonical authority" except for convenience. The default is the multiverse including any setting.

I haven't seen that language. Someone in this thread did quote language that did not say that, but rather they assumed that the language meant that players could go back and pick from 5e.

Can you quote the passage that explicitly says that so that I can see it.

For example, in page 177 of the Players Handbook.

"
ORIGIN COMPONENTS
Each part of your characters origin reflects facets of your character, their life, and the circumstances that started them on the path to adventure. If you choose a background or a species from an older book, see the sidebar "Backgrounds and Species from Older Books" in chapter 2 for how to use them with the options here.

"

The 2024 species are options, and species from other books are also options. A particular campaign might use a setting that picks all, some, or none of them. There is no "default setting", except for the "multiverse", which includes any setting.

A kitchen sink setting, like Forgotten Realms, probably will have every option in play, including the options from the "older books". But this "completist" approach is itself a setting conceit, and has no special canonical authority over any other setting.

The 2024 rules require a character to have a "species", as a part of the "origin". But what that species is might be anything. Whatever the table wants. There is advice for how to make it work.

Not to a setting, but to the rules, yes there are. Every race in the 5.5e PHB is a default race for the 5.5e game.

The rules dont privilege any particular species, except by making ten species convenient to pick, when deciding on a species.

 

[Maxperson]

The book itself says the species are optional. So they are optional.

You're missing the point. They are optional.................................in your setting. They are not optional in the PHB. They are there regardless of whether you use them or not.

For example, in page 177 of the Players Handbook.

ORIGIN COMPONENTS
Each part of your characters origin reflects facets of your character, their life, and the circumstances that started them on the path to adventure. If you choose a background or a species from an older book, see the sidebar "Backgrounds and Species from Older Books" in chapter 2 for how to use them with the options here.

"If you choose" does not equate to "you can choose." If the DM does not allow older books, there is no ability to choose an older option. If he does allow it, then the "if you choose" portion comes in to play.

The 2024 species are options, and species from other books are also options. A particular campaign might use a setting that picks all, some, or none of them. There is no "default setting", except for the "multiverse", which includes any setting.

A kitchen sink setting, like Forgotten Realms, probably will have every option in play, including the options from the "older books". But this "completist" approach is itself a setting conceit, and has no special canonical authority over any other setting.

The 2024 rules require a character to have a "species", as a part of the "origin". But what that species is might be anything. Whatever the table wants. There is advice for how to make it work.

The Realms will likely have every option from 5.5e in it. Anything from 5e is up to the DM to allow or not and cannot be assumed to be available to pick. A lot of DMs are going to say no to this.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think that is universal to all settings.

I think the domains/portfolios are universal if they exist on the setting.

So a Tempest Clerc of Zeus and a Tempest Clerc of Kord planeswalk or spelljam to Norseland, they have magic either viathe Tempest domain or Thor.

If Thor has the Tempest Domain, a Tempest Clerc of Zeus and a Tempest Clerc of Kord can't bring in Zeus or Kord into Norseland as a Tempest deity without Thor's or the Overgod's consent.

Now Thor might be Zeus or Kord in that setting and grant power directly under the different name. OR Thor or Zeus might be allies in or outside the setting and grant power to a follow deity's cleric via allyship or respect of the domain.

But if Thor is dead or left in Norseland, a Tempest Clerc of Zeus and a Tempest Clerc of Kord would still have magic but a Tempest Cleric of Thor would have to becomea warlock, chose another good, hope for a loophole, or become powerless.

But you can't simply pray a god into existence. That's 25% the point of Warlocks.

The lore I'm referencing is from an older edition for sure, but I've seen nothing put out since that contradicts it. Of course, I haven't seen the current incarnation of Planescape and something might be said there one way or the other.

 

[Maxperson]

So it’s a new edition of a player plays an artificer or a warforged character. Because you cannot refer to either solely using 2014 books.

If I’m talking about weapon features, those rules are found in the 2024 phb. If I’m talking about artificers, that’s found in another book. If I’m talking about half-elves, currently the rules are found in the 2014 phb.

None of this is a new “edition”. Your insistence that it must be defined as such is how edition warring works. First force your definition into every single conversation about the game and then continuously bang that definition over and over again.

Good grief it’s been going on for two years now. This isn’t new.

I missed this earlier.

You can't choose to play an artificer, half-elf, or warforged character unless the DM is including the 5e books. A lot of DMs will include them, and a lot won't. The older books can't be assumed to be available as options.

Referring to it as 5.5e is no different than referring to it as next or 2024. It's just a differentiation, not warring. You want to engage semantics and call it 2024, that's fine. I'm going to engage the same semantics and continue to refer to it as 5.5e, because that's how numbering has gone in D&D.

I'm not forcing you to use 5.5e, and you are not forcing me to use 2024. It's just how we are choosing to separate the books in order to avoid confusion in discussions about the myriad of changes that 5.5e made to the game.

 

[Scribe]

No one uses 5.5 edition as a neutral term.

lol yes I do. Mechanically, I think 5.5 is likely better than 5.0. It absolutely is a neutral term to reflect the new edition of the PHB.

Thanks for the thoughts though.