D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Paul Farquhar]

Let me explain it simpler.

Humans, orcs, and elves have different lore, mechanics, and special traits. Half elves and half orcs lore, mechanics, and special traits that humans, orcs, and elves do not have and not in the same combination.

You can say we don't need them. But you can't say orcs and half orcs in 2023 were the same.

If they have special mechanics that mean say, they are natural diplomats, that is undesirable in the modern game, because it has the message “if you are not born this way you can never excel as a diplomat”.

So you cut the “born diplomats” from the game. Now anyone can excel as a diplomat.

But by not including something in the PHB or SRD WotC are saying “we don’t want this any more, so you are free to do whatever you want with it”.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

No

I am saying that people are interchanging between the 3 version of Orc when any version is beneficial to their argument.

Pot calling kettle black then, because I literally just said you do that too.

My point is that Half Orcs are or never have been playable Orcs in mechanics and lore in 4e or 5e.

The fact 4e had no playable Orcs ensures that Half-Orcs were by default the "now shut up" to everyone who wanted to play an Orc. They could not have disting mechanics when orcs did not have mechanics at all.

I was ready to overlook a lot of stuff. I was a sure buy the moment they announced the new books because, hey shiny half-century edition! I remained enthusiastic even after the OGl-gate and the Pinkerton incident -way less, but still eager-.

All of the other concerns were hard, but not impossible to overcome. This one just leaves me wanting to go somewhere else.

Yeah, majority of people likely to be pissed over the omission probably decided to nto buy this edition around time of OGL, so you're an exception.

 

[Minigiant]

If they have special mechanics that mean say, they are natural diplomats, that is undesirable in the modern game, because it has the message “if you are not born this way you can never excel as a diplomat

Lets be honest.

The Half elf bonus were extra skills and languages. The Half Orc got a skill and a stronger hit

They fact that WOTC forgot a way to learn Exotic languages gives Half elf a point.

 

[Remathilis]

My point is that Half Orcs are or never have been playable Orcs in mechanics and lore in 4e or 5e.

They had distinct mechanics and lore and playing one even if the DM allowed Orc as playable, it stayed distinct.

They absolutely were. There is no official playable orc in 4e. Want to play an orc? Play a half-orc unless your DM lets to play the NPC orc in the back of the Monster Manual. And in 5e, the orc was intentionally crippled with one of the only negative ability score modifiers in the game. They intentionally steered anyone who wanted to play and orc towards the half-orc until 2019 by making orcs have terrible "NPC" type stats. Once the Eberron orcs (and later the MotM orcs) came around, the half-orc's niche is "kinda like an orc" which isn't a big design space.

But you have convinced yourself of a hair-thin distinction, so I feel this conversation has run its course. Just don't be surprised when both half-races aren't in the 5.2 SRD (or in the game at all going forward).

 

[Not a Decepticon]

The Half elf bonus were extra skills and languages. The Half Orc got a skill and a stronger hit

Truly signifiers of a separate race - knows an extra skill! /sarcasm

 

[Minigiant]

They absolutely were. There is no official playable orc in 4e. Want to play an orc? Play a half-orc unless your DM lets to play the NPC orc in the back of the Monster Manual. And in 5e, the orc was intentionally crippled with one of the only negative ability score modifiers in the game. They intentionally steered anyone who wanted to play and orc towards the half-orc until 2019 by making orcs have terrible "NPC" type stats. Once the Eberron orcs (and later the MotM orcs) came around, the half-orc's niche is "kinda like an orc" which isn't a big design space

They have different mechanics and different lore. In 4e they have definite ASI and racial powers. 5e half orcs and orcs have different mechanics and lore.

But you have convinced yourself of a hair-thin distinction, so I feel this conversation has run its course. Just don't be surprised when both half-races aren't in the 5.2 SRD (or in the game at all going forward).

I know it won't happen.

I'm just saying Half Orc and Orc are only redundant if you don't look.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

In 4e they have definite ASI and racial powers.

Unsurprisingly when Orcs in 4e are not playable so they have NO mechanics whatsoever

5e half orcs and orcs have different mechanics and lore.

And now they don't, so there is no longer reason to have Half-Orcs.

 

[Minigiant]

Unsurprisingly when Orcs in 4e are not playable so they have NO mechanics whatsoever

Orcs had mechanics for creating an orc PC in 4e.

Further, what lore? Both 4e and 5e imply half-orcs are children of frontier orc/human peaceful contact (rather than the violent background of before) but 5e orcs up to Tasha's were still thralls to Gruumsh and barely able to keep their evil in check (and half-orcs suffered the same curse, tempered by... their human blood!) The lore still placed them as the "more intelligent" orcs, and even the 4e writeup described how they were more "human looking" than regular orcs (the 10% passable rule lives on...). Further, 4e and 5e both talk about how half-orcs faced prejudice by those who hate orcs and have to work to get past it.

4e MM2 Ph141

"The origins of half orcs are mysterious. Some say that they are the product of cross-speeding between savage tribes. Others point to an ancient program to create the ultimate warrior. Still others say that their origins are divine. All of none of these explanations might be true"

There you have it
Half-orcs are Space Land Marines created by the God Emperor.

Continuing to question them is heresy.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Orcs had mechanics for creating an orc PC in 4e.

4e MM2 Ph141

"The origins of half orcs are mysterious. Some say that they are the product of cross-speeding between savage tribes. Others point to an ancient program to create the ultimate warrior. Still others say that their origins are divine. All of none of these explanations might be true"

There you have it
Half-orcs are Space Land Marines created by the God Emperor.

Continuing to question them is heresy.

"Nobody knows their origins but it was probably based on racist stereotypes of "savages" or eugenics" is a lore I will not miss.

And "they hid rules for Orc pcs in the back so they have an excuse to push Half-orc as main choice" isn't good look either.

 

[Minigiant]

"Nobody knows their origins but it was probably based on racist stereotypes of "savages"" is a lore I will not miss.

That's why I prefer super soldiers.

A combined effort between Grummush and the Dead Human God to send supper warriors to combat something nondivine.