D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[AnotherGuy]

All it says is that it is not necessary--mandatory, required, unavoidable--to have a human in the party in order for the PCs to still feel relatable and grounded.
Since you disputed this, the only possible interpretation is that you believe it is necessary to have one or more humans in the party, otherwise it cannot, even in principle, be relatable.

If that was not the meaning I was supposed to get from this, why did you cut this specific part out and reject it as wrong?

I offered the idea that in human-centric settings, which many of the published settings are, gamers often prefer having that touchstone (since many seem to be using that word).
It is not wrong or right, it is a preference.
HOWEVER, personally I'm okay with having no humans as long as there are members within the party that are representable of the setting.

So for instance, there has to be a good reason (story wise) for me to start a campaign in Forgotten Realms and have a party made up of a Giff, a Genasi, a Githyanki, a Kender and a Rakshasa.

 

[pemerton]

They're also a 20th century human perspective that serves as a viewpoint for 20th century readers.

My only quibble with this would be "late 19th century"! Or perhaps Edwardian.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Just jumping in here.

Halflings do not exist on Krynn.
Gnomes do not exist on Athas. They are not a playable race on Mystara* and Cerilia.
Half-elves* do not exist on Mystara.
Orcs (and half-orcs*) do not exist on Cerilia, Athas, Ravenloft, or Krynn.

So if you're looking for "all published worlds" you have human, elf, and dwarf.

Fair.

EDIT: Actually I didn't know Orcs do not exist in Ravenloft

---
* The reason gnomes and half-races don't exist on Mystara is that the overwhelming majority of the setting was made for Basic D&D and these races didn't have playable stats until the line made its ill-fated jump to AD&D. There is a debate on if that should count. Gnomes and orcs did exist as monsters only in both Mystara and Cerilia though.

That is interesting. I know gnomes exist in Highforge and there is the supplement Top Ballista which I sadly do not possess.

 

[pemerton]

So you agree that them being a different species does not stop them from being elatable to gumans and a party of Hobbits wouldn't need a human to provide relatbility?

Well, in JRRT's work they're not a "different species". That's a type of projection onto the work that doesn't make sense of it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Just jumping in here.

Halflings do not exist on Krynn.
Gnomes do not exist on Athas. They are not a playable race on Mystara* and Cerilia.
Half-elves* do not exist on Mystara.
Orcs (and half-orcs*) do not exist on Cerilia, Athas, Ravenloft, or Krynn.

Kender definitely are halflings, but otherwise, sure.

So if you're looking for "all published worlds" you have human, elf, and dwarf.

---
* The reason gnomes and half-races don't exist on Mystara is that the overwhelming majority of the setting was made for Basic D&D and these races didn't have playable stats until the line made its ill-fated jump to AD&D. There is a debate on if that should count. Gnomes and orcs did exist as monsters only in both Mystara and Cerilia though.

And I think it is a good thing that not every setting has the same palette of species. And to me that is actually the only way D&D's insane number of marginally different species can make sense; you're not supposed to use them all in one setting, but pick and choose which ones you want.

As for humans, they are the obvious baseline, and thus almost always included. But not including them is a valid choice too, and probably a good way to make the setting feel weirder and more alien. Dark Crystal is a good example of a setting where humans do not exist, and it works just fine. And whilst humans do exist in Elf Quest, they're not the viewpoint characters. That works just fine as well.

 

[Remathilis]

Fair.

EDIT: Actually I didn't know Orcs do not exist in Ravenloft

That is interesting. I know gnomes exist in Highforge and there is the supplement Top Ballista which I sadly do not possess.

Orcs didn't exist in Ravenloft natively except for one dubious exception (they are in House on Gryphon Hill as a minor encounter) but during the classic era of the setting, they were considered not fitting the theme. When 3e came around, they replaced the half-orc with a monster -human race called Calibans that had the same mechanics.

5e Ravenloft however does allow for orcs and any other species you want to exist.

 

[Minigiant]

JRRT's Hobbits are not an alternative to humans and a human perspective. They are a human perspective, and in particular a certain sort of imagined English perspective.

If anything D&D has too many of the same kinds of human analogues in multiple species.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Well, in JRRT's work they're not a "different species". That's a type of projection onto the work that doesn't make sense of it.

Considering Frodo is considered young at 50, I do not belive Hobbits were meant to just be humans. Also, Tolkien rejected claims of allegory lie "Hobbits are the British".

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not really no.

And yet...

 

[Micah Sweet]

They are the same edition

However ironically 2 of the only 5 things that are from the previous PHB that is not in the current PHB that do not convert properly are those two items.

So technically there is a point to updating them.
There might not be a point of putting them in the SRD for that reason. However there is a point to reprinting them. The only point to printing them in the SRD specifically is to spread the idea that mixed species are an accepted and non-rare thing to be found in D&D games.

And the existing SRD doesn't do that?