D&D (2024) Should a general Adventurer class be created to represent the Everyman?

[Minigiant]

This sounds like two things.
• Start at level 0, using background features.
• Advance to level 1 in a 'Classless' class.

The Classless class has something like a pointbuy system to purchase any feature from any class.

I did this Classless Class for 4e. It works well when features are gated by level prereqs. In 5e, certain features are very expensive, such as Rogue Sneak Attack, which is worth something like 1½ feats, thus require two levels to acquire, meaning, there will be an 'empty level' as downpayment to purchase it in the next level. 5e level 1 is front loaded worth more than one level of design space, in order to start with features like Sneak Attack.

I was thinking of a class that has features like this


Level 1: Destiny Points
Your belief in yourself places a special mark on the world. This is represented by Destiny Points. Your GEC level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Destiny Points column of the GEC Features table.

You can expend these points to enhance or fuel certain GEC features.

You start knowing 2 such features: Defy Death and Lucky Hit, and each of which is detailed below.

Defy Death: When you are reduced to 0 Hit Points but not killed outright, you can spend a Destiny Point and drop to 1d12 Hit Points instead. You cannot exceed your maximum Hit Point total this way.

Lucky Hit: When you hit a creature with an attack and deal damage, you can spend a Destiny Point and gain a 1d12 bonus to the attack’s damage roll,

When you expend a Destiny Point, it is unavailable until you finish a Short or Long Rest, at the end of which you regain all your expended points.

Level 2: Learn by sight.
Your lived experience on adventure has granted you new aptitudes. You gain one Origin feat of your choice.

Level 5: Fated Strike
You seem to strike at the weak points of enemies more often when they let your attacks land. When you hit with an attack, you can spend a Destiny Point to make it a critical hit.

 

[Yaarel]

in 4E you literally do not need to modify anything, power level difference between powers is so little that you could pick any power from any class, with level being respected OFC.

Sorry, that was a typo. I did it for the 3e system near its end. Soon after, many of its approaches were incorporated into 4e.

It is generally true, the organization of 4e features into individual "powers", makes it easy to mix-and-match. 5e does something similar, by explicitly and implicitly organizing features into design spaces of full-feat and half-feat. A level in a class is equivalent to a full-feat, plus baseline stuff such as average hit points.

5th level fighter taking Fireball once per day instead of 5th level fighter attack once per day?
Who cares, not that Fireball is anything special in 4E.

Every slot of spellcasting can be quantified. The quantity of design space for the highest slots, are generally used as the measurement unit for the highest level features of the nonmagic classes.

 

[FrozenNorth]

The concept of "luck" mechanics is, the character doesnt actually do anything. It is the stuff around that seems to happen to work out.

Like the opponent somehow manages to injure oneself while trying to attack the luckster.

Mechanically, the "attack" is causing the target to inflict its damage against itself, or cause its spell to target itself.

Also granting extra attacks to teammates can work.

Failing a save somehow ends up unscathed.

And so on, with the character appearing as if inactive, or especially as if incompetent.

The challenge with this formulation is that it often doesn’t make the character seem like an everyman. On the contrary, it highlights how abnormal and special he is.

If I were to traverse a battlefield unarmed and unarmored and not get hit, you wouldn’t conclude that I’m a normal dude. You would conclude that I seem to be the chosen of some god or goddess of luck.

 

[Yaarel]

The challenge with this formulation is that it often doesn’t make the character seem like an everyman. On the contrary, it highlights how abnormal and special he is.

If I were to traverse a battlefield unarmed and unarmored and not get hit, you wouldn’t conclude that I’m a normal dude. You would conclude that I seem to be the chosen of some god or goddess of luck.

That is true of the genre anyway?

The Everyone survives MIRACULOUSLY because of the power of honesty and humility.

Authenticity is the superpower.

Heh, this is why the Everyone isnt a "Red Shirt".

 

[FrozenNorth]

That is true of the genre anyway?

The Everyone survives MIRACULOUSLY because of the power of honesty and humility.

I think we are talking about more than 1 genre here, and that is causing confusion.

When I think of the everyman, I’m thinking of a character who doesn’t fight at all. He supports the party in other ways, knowledge, heart, skills, etc. If that character got involved in battle, or was revealed to have some super secret destiny, it would end his everyman status.

Someone else suggested an isekai protagonist. Obviously that is a different trope, but in representing an isekai PC, I think the principal issue is that the character shouldn’t have abilities that take time to learn, but could still have overpowered abilities. You also be true to the genre by having all the character’s power coming from an item, with subclasses depending on the item (weapon subclass, book/PAD subclass, charm subclass). Basically, a refluffed warlock.

Another suggested everyman was the character whose fabulous destiny is revealed in play. This seems to be the best candidate for luck manipulation mechanics, as his inexplicable luck could be interpreted as an outgrowth of his destiny.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i feel something like a class that starts with only a handful of proficiencies, and basically just gets a feat every other level, maybe every third level? would probably best model an 'everyman' over anything with an actual set 'progression'

The Everyman
Hit Dice: d8
Armour: Simple Armour
Weapons: pick any 4 simple weapons
Skills: pick any 3
Tools: pick any 2 tools and 1 gaming set or musical instrument
Saving throws: STR, WIS

then at third level you pick a subclass which leans you more into one of the more classical archetypes of warrior, expert or mage.

Warrior
3rd: simple weapon prof, any 4 martial weapons, medium armour, shields, fighting style, +1HP/level.
7th: extra attack, second wind, reckless attack.
13th: improved critical, brutal critical.

Expert
3rd: simple weapon prof, shields, any 3 skills, 1 tool, expertise(2), jack of all trades, cunning action
7th: tool expertise, GWM/SS's (+10/-5) as a feature.
13th: flash of genius.

Mage
3rd: halfcasting(pick to use one of wizard, cleric, druid or bard spell list), cantrips(any list), ritual casting,
7th: arcane recovery, pick one of metamagic/channel divinity/wildshape/infuse item.
13th: magical secrets(2).

something to that effect anyways...

 

[Remathilis]

My point is that the 5th Edition fighter and rogue, especially in 2024, are too skilled and specially trained to "just become".

The fighter would take at least a year of training. And that's the minimum to learn every weapon, every armor, and how to practice every Weapon Mastery. And a fighting style.. And that's just assuming they aren't also training but not applying subclass techniques. An Eldritch Knight, Battle Master, or Rune Knight might be need extra years.

A rogue is looking at at least a few months. More likely a few years unless you are already on the path via a criminal or military background.

Because classes are assumed to be skilled at something. You don't become skilled overnight. Even on-the-job training is still training. Characters like Jack Burton, Frodo, or other happenstance characters survive because of luck, not skill. Hence plot armor. That's very hard to model in an RPG. Like I said, a character who deals purely in meta-currency rather than actual skills is the only way you're going to pull that off.

Bob the Baker isn't capable to fighting an ogre, sneaking past a guard, or surviving a fireball with just his learned skills. But if Bob's player has a pool of points he can use to augment Bob's attacks, skills, and saves, then it can look like Bob is accomplishing great tasks with luck or grit. Suddenly, Bob's player spends a luck point and Bob's attack gets an extra +1d8 to hit and damage and he can kill the ogre. Bob's player spends a luck point and subtracts 1d10 from the guard's Perception check. Bob's player spends two luck points and suddenly Bob's Dexterity save is for half or nothing damage. Bob isn't doing any of that; luck is bending around him to protect him.

The biggest issue I see is that such characters tend to fall into two genres: protagonist or sidekick. The former tends to get Main Character Syndrome; the latter is a comic relief who spends his time getting into trouble and avoiding the consequences of their actions. Neither I think is super-healthy for the game.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Frodo, or other happenstance characters survive because of luck, not skill.

The whole of "The Scouring of the Shire" is about how the hobbits have grown on their adventures. They may have started at level zero, and still be not as powerful as Aragorn or Gandalf (who have been adventuring since before the hobbits were born), but they are more than a match for the diminished Saruman and his minions. Most obviously, Merry and Pippin have fighter levels (or Warlord for Merry if your RPG has that class). They may have left as everymen, but they are not everymen when they return.

 

[Minigiant]

Because classes are assumed to be skilled at something. You don't become skilled overnight. Even on-the-job training is still training. Characters like Jack Burton, Frodo, or other happenstance characters survive because of luck, not skill. Hence plot armor. That's very hard to model in an RPG. Like I said, a character who deals purely in meta-currency rather than actual skills is the only way you're going to pull that off.

Bob the Baker isn't capable to fighting an ogre, sneaking past a guard, or surviving a fireball with just his learned skills. But if Bob's player has a pool of points he can use to augment Bob's attacks, skills, and saves, then it can look like Bob is accomplishing great tasks with luck or grit. Suddenly, Bob's player spends a luck point and Bob's attack gets an extra +1d8 to hit and damage and he can kill the ogre. Bob's player spends a luck point and subtracts 1d10 from the guard's Perception check. Bob's player spends two luck points and suddenly Bob's Dexterity save is for half or nothing damage. Bob isn't doing any of that; luck is bending around him to protect him.

The biggest issue I see is that such characters tend to fall into two genres: protagonist or sidekick. The former tends to get Main Character Syndrome; the latter is a comic relief who spends his time getting into trouble and avoiding the consequences of their actions. Neither I think is super-healthy for the game.

I don't see how it's unhealthy for the game. The game already has a lesser version of it

What you describe is functionally not much different from a 5e fighter, barbarian, or monk just with a different resource system.

Spending a resource for increased outgoing damage or to decrease incoming damage.

Just with a lesser chassis but stronger feature.

Or you could go the "Champion" route and give an expanded crit range on attacks and let them crit on skill checks and saving throws.

 

[Remathilis]

The whole of "The Scouring of the Shire" is about how the hobbits have grown on their adventures. They may have started at level zero, and still be not as powerful as Aragorn or Gandalf (who have been adventuring since before the hobbits were born), but they are more than a match for the diminished Saruman and his minions. Most obviously, Merry and Pippin have fighter levels (or Warlord for Merry if your RPG has that class). They may have left as everymen, but they are not everymen when they return.

And such an everyman character would be high level and have an appropriate proficiency bonus and HP to reflect that. But even so, they aren't fighters or such unless they multiclass into it.

That might be an interesting alternative: Everyman is only a 5-level class you must start at, and you must multiclass out of by level 6. But I was thinking as a 20 level class where a 20th level character has a +6 PB and 20d8 HD, but without his plot armor points doesn't have any class features or abilities that rely on training or skill.