D&D (2024) Should a general Adventurer class be created to represent the Everyman?

[Theory of Games]

TSR had little sense of balance in AD&D. You can count of three things in life: Death, Taxes, and D&D being unbalanced.

100% agreed. My point was .... your point

 

[Micah Sweet]

TSR had little sense of balance in AD&D. You can count of three things in life: Death, Taxes, and D&D being unbalanced

I've never seen balance as all that important. I care far more about accurate (within practical limits) modeling of aspects of the fiction.

 

[Minigiant]

So honestly, if I were statting up LotR in D&D terms (a fool's errand but hear me out) I'd probably make all the hobbits fighters or fighter/rogues. If you REALLY want to argue it, Frodo could be an NPC statblock. I don't really think there is much necessity for an everyman class in D&D, but I'm playing along with the OP's assumption and that Legolas and Gimli are closer to the traditional D&D Fighter than Merri and Pippin and you would need a new class to represent the latter.

That's pretty much all I've been saying.

Fantasy stories love to take people straight from their everyday life and throw them straight into the adventure.

It's a common enough fantasy trope that D&D has slowly pulled farther and farther away from making it logical with the mechanics they have.

Fighters have become more specialized and especially trained.

Rogues are straight up deep into shadow and skullduggery if not painted with some level of criminality or military service.

The only low training classes are warlocks and maybe sorcerers. So everyone who quickly enters adventure is a casting spells not native to their previous life.

 

[Theory of Games]

Warlocks and Sorcerers have POWER. Characters don't need exceptional training if they can blow up orks with magic. This "Everyman" is being pitched as an untrained, non-magical PC - aka "monster food".

This kind of reminds me of the old D&D cartoon where the kids are thrown into a fantasy world filled with dangerous monsters and evil sorcerers. There's a connection IMO

 

[tsadkiel]

Doctors and Daleks has six "everyman" PC classes, one for each ability score, which can be dropped into D&D pretty seamlessly. The classes all have "quips", nonmagical abilities which work mostly like spells and cantrips but represent unusual knacks and talents, anything from a well-timed argument that weakens an opponent's resolve, causing them to make their next save with disadvantage, to improvised weapons to convincing foes to stop fighting for a moment.

 

[Theory of Games]

Doctors and Daleks has six "everyman" PC classes, one for each ability score, which can be dropped into D&D pretty seamlessly. The classes all have "quips", nonmagical abilities which work mostly like spells and cantrips but represent unusual knacks and talents, anything from a well-timed argument that weakens an opponent's resolve, causing them to make their next save with disadvantage, to improvised weapons to convincing foes to stop fighting for a moment.

Ok ... but if they have spell-like "non-magical abilities" and capabilities that (at a glance) resemble Feats, is that an Everyman?

That said, that looks like a cool sci-fi supplement. The 5e system is producing some interesting non-fantasy games

 

[Remathilis]

That's pretty much all I've been saying.

Fantasy stories love to take people straight from their everyday life and throw them straight into the adventure.

It's a common enough fantasy trope that D&D has slowly pulled farther and farther away from making it logical with the mechanics they have.

Fighters have become more specialized and especially trained.

Rogues are straight up deep into shadow and skullduggery if not painted with some level of criminality or military service.

The only low training classes are warlocks and maybe sorcerers. So everyone who quickly enters adventure is a casting spells not native to their previous life.

Well that's because people are demanding more MARTIAL POWER from the fighter class to keep pace with casters, so the idea that a Joe Nobody can hang with God is less and less viable. Not without copious amounts of plot armor.

The Avengers can defeat Thanos because of skill, training and power. Squirrel Girl defeats Thanos because of plot armor.

 

[Minigiant]

Well that's because people are demanding more MARTIAL POWER from the fighter class to keep pace with casters, so the idea that a Joe Nobody can hang with God is less and less viable. Not without copious amounts of plot armor.

The Avengers can defeat Thanos because of skill, training and power. Squirrel Girl defeats Thanos because of plot armor.

First people demanding that the mage get more powerful.

Then people demanded that the priests get more powerful because nobody wanted to play healer.

Then people demanded that the warriors get more powerful to match the spellcasters.

Then people demanded that the rogue get more powerful because they got left behind.

So now every class starts at level one with weak powers but a whole lot of them. So Joe Nobody has to learn a lot just to count as level one.

The Gulf of knowledge between a "level 0" and a level 1 character in 5E is humongous. Only 4e had more of but that was on purpose.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

i mean...characters go from level 1 to 20 in what, 44 adventuring days? is it really that much of a stretch to play a fighter or rogue as an everyman? i'd argue going from "trained combatant" to "legendary slayer of myth" in less then 2 months is a far bigger stretch then the everyman starting with some competency.

 

[Theory of Games]

First people demanding that the mage get more powerful.

Then people demanded that the priests get more powerful because nobody wanted to play healer.

Then people demanded that the warriors get more powerful to match the spellcasters.

Then people demanded that the rogue get more powerful because they got left behind.

So now every class starts at level one with weak powers but a whole lot of them. So Joe Nobody has to learn a lot just to count as level one.

The Gulf of knowledge between a "level 0" and a level 1 character in 5E is humongous. Only 4e had more of but that was on purpose.

You make the point: players want capable - even hyper-capable - PCs. Exceptions noted, most D&D players don't want to play 0-Level Joe Nobody.

Unless you can make playing that kind of PC interesting.