D&D (2024) Should a general Adventurer class be created to represent the Everyman?

[TwoSix]

The solution to this (for me) is to add rules for horizontal growth. Downtime can help a lot with this.

My current 5e hack does this. Multiclassing stacks horizontally, not vertically. A character can be an expert3/acolyte3/pyromancer3, but they're still only a 3rd level character. (They only use 3 Hit Die, and their prof bonus is equivalent to a +2.)

All characters, both classed and non-classed, can also spend 1000*number of feats possessed XP to gain a feat.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

but I'm playing along with the OP's assumption and that Legolas and Gimli are closer to the traditional D&D Fighter than Merri and Pippin and you would need a new class to represent the latter.

The OP is wrong, they differ only in level. Legolas and Gimili had many years adventuring experience before we meet them - especially Legolas, it’s no wonder they can shield surf!

I would stat Frodo as a cleric, using low magic rules, or possibly a warlock, with the Ring as patron.

 

[Minigiant]

The OP is wrong, they differ only in level. Legolas and Gimili had many years adventuring experience before we meet them - especially Legolas, it’s no wonder they can shield surf!

I would stat Frodo as a cleric, using low magic rules, or possibly a warlock, with the Ring as patron.

How is Frodo a cleric?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

How is Frodo a cleric?

Turn undead. Wise, with good saves. No spells, it’s a low magic setting.

 

[ezo]

All the magic user fans who complained about restriction.

Again... who the heck was that!?!?!?

If anything, mages have more restrictions now due to things like concentration than they had before.

I simply never heard of anyone complaining that mages were not powerful enough, etc.

I think many folks are missing the point.

No one is trying to play level 0 merchant.
Maybe a level 7 merchant.

What is a level 7 merchant, though? Why would a non-heroic character / class have 40ish hit points?

I mean, if they are surviving the adventures and contributing at all to the success of the adventure, they are heroes.

Now, if you want a "Professional" class (a la Expert), a "Commoner" class, etc. to cover the "non-traditional hero-types" then that is fine, of course, and maybe some people would enjoy playing them. I, for one, like the sidekicks, for example, but even then you won't have an "Everyman" class--you will likely have a few of them which can cover a large amount of territory.

But, if these new Everyman classes can function at the level or be competitive at least as the traditional heroic classes, how are they any different really?

possibly a warlock, with the Ring as patron.

That is an intriguing concept!

 

[Tonguez]

I would stat Frodo as a cleric, using low magic rules, or possibly a warlock, with the Ring as patron.

Frodo is a Warlock, Folk Hero background
He gets greater invisibility, limited clairvoyance, frightful presence and protection from undead, but the cursed ring corrupts his soul (Wis save on every use). Failure leads to fear being internalised to paranoia, hallucinations and obsession

 

[Remathilis]

You make the point: players want capable - even hyper-capable - PCs. Exceptions noted, most D&D players don't want to play 0-Level Joe Nobody.

Unless you can make playing that kind of PC interesting.

Exactly. There may be a market for playing Joe Nobody amongst mighty warriors and powerful wizards, but I don't think it's particularly big.

 

[Theory of Games]

Exactly. There may be a market for playing Joe Nobody amongst mighty warriors and powerful wizards, but I don't think it's particularly big.

No, it's big. Look at DCC or even Shadowdark. The PCs are puny but not completely useless.

The key is how you market The Everyman: you build up the other classes making them seem so amazing - then introduce the young, lovable, naive farmboy from Tatooine. The smily-faced, charming, club-footed Hobbit from the shire. Those hilarious and nosy kids and their dog riding around in that silly van.

They're all gonna die - unless YOU can keep them alive! Use your wits, tool kit and a handful of luck dice to brave the depths of Hell and save the dragon from that evil princess!

 

[Minigiant]

Again... who the heck was that!?!?!?

If anything, mages have more restrictions now due to things like concentration than they had before.

I simply never heard of anyone complaining that mages were not powerful enough, etc

I heard it in Pre3e D&D tables and many games that replicated them.

It took a while for mages to get good and there were few ways to mitigate the restrictions.

What is a level 7 merchant, though? Why would a non-heroic character / class have 40ish hit points?

I mean, if they are surviving the adventures and contributing at all to the success of the adventure, they are heroes.

Now, if you want a "Professional" class (a la Expert), a "Commoner" class, etc. to cover the "non-traditional hero-types" then that is fine, of course, and maybe some people would enjoy playing them. I, for one, like the sidekicks, for example, but even then you won't have an "Everyman" class--you will likely have a few of them which can cover a large amount of territory.

But, if these new Everyman classes can function at the level or be competitive at least as the traditional heroic classes, how are they any different really?

Well I'm not saying they aren't heroes or villains.

I'm saying that the level of education and training for PCs has drastically increased.

Look at the write up for the Fighter in 2024.

"Fighters rule many battlefields. Questing knights, royal champions, elite soldiers, and hardened mercenaries—as Fighters, they all share an unparalleled prowess with weapons and armor. And they are well acquainted with death, both meting it out and defying it.

Fighters master various weapon techniques, and a well-equipped Fighter always has the right tool at hand for any combat situation. Likewise, a Fighter is adept with every form of armor. Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each Fighter specializes in certain styles of combat. Some concentrate on archery, some on fighting with two weapons at once, and some on augmenting their martial skills with magic. This combination of broad ability and extensive specialization makes Fighters superior combatants"

It's beyond basic training. The D&D fighter is special force training. There is nothing between that are the Rogue's Super Shinobi School level training. There is no learning the basics and relying on the skills of your background, upgrading them as you go. You are going to an elite warrior program, mage training, priest tutelage, etc.

You can't even be just a town guard who goes for a score. The flavor for classes are just professionals, they are elite professionals. You may be novices at level 1 but you are all coming out of special forces programs.

(Except warlocks who are dropouts who make pacts to fake credentials and go pew pew)

I guess I'm saying that there could be a class does minimal training, upgrades your background, and gives you a little more luck, grit, or fate to compensate.

The Farmer gets Tougher and Tougher. Tougher than a fighter but doesn't know 30 ways to kill a many with 5 weapons. Just 3 ways to kill with a glaive.
The Merchant gets Luckier and Luckier. Luckier than a Rogue but less knowledgeable of skullduggery and no way as dodgy. They compensate for lack of speed with training with heavy armor and an axe.
The exSailor is no monk but packs a good punch. And he picked up a few water based cantrips and is using a magic anchor as a weapon.

 

[Remathilis]

No, it's big. Look at DCC or even Shadowdark. The PCs are puny but not completely useless.

Yes, but EVERYONE in those games are equally puny. DCC characters are all equally likely to die. We're talking about a puny character amongst the hyper-competent party of traditional D&D classes.

The key is how you market The Everyman: you build up the other classes making them seem so amazing - then introduce the young, lovable, naive farmboy from Tatooine. The smily-faced, charming, club-footed Hobbit from the shire. Those hilarious and nosy kids and their dog riding around in that silly van.

They're all gonna die - unless YOU can keep them alive! Use your wits, tool kit and a handful of luck dice to brave the depths of Hell and save the dragon from that evil princess!

I don't consider Luke to be an everyman. Even in A New Hope, he's a remarkable bush-pilot, a crack shot with a blaster, and an amazing mechanic. And that's all before Obi-Wan tells him he's a space-wizard.

But the others all survive due to Plot Armor. Specifically, they survive because they are the main character(s) and the story would end without them, or they survive because fool's luck and contrivance bend space and time to make them. That is incredibly hard to do in an RPG unless the DM himself is going to give said armor (aka cheat for him) or the class is built with all the resources a normal character has but couched in ways to make it luck rather than skill. The rogue uses evasion because he's trained to dodge blasts like that, an everyman avoids the fireball because he blew his luck-points to take no damage.

What WON'T sell is the everyman who lacks that sort of plot armor. All you have a handful of skills, some simple weapons and light armor proficiencies, and a d8 HD. Make your way in the world. That is a much harder sell unless you find a player who likes hard-mode challenges. I don't think that sort of design will fly (and if it would, its very easy to do).