D&D 5E Should D&D 5e have Epic Levels?

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Have you checked out Epic Characters on DMsGuild. It takes every class to level 30 (I don't think they have down Artificer yet though) and sound like what you are looking for.

I have, thanks for the recommendation. This fell flat for me, and am making my own version.

 

[dave2008]

On principle I dislike level limits. On the other hand, the nature of skill development is that the more advanced one becomes, the more advancement slows. There's also the limiting factor of time and aging. So a "realistic" D&D would actually involve less power increases the higher level one becomes - or at least far slower advancement to new advancements.

That said, D&D is a game and doesn't need to model itself after the real world (ahem). I personally see no reason why a new or alternate epic capstone system wouldn't be a good thing, and I would be very interested in seeing it developed. Furthermore, I think it should include something new, that isn't just "more of the same, but more" -- meaning, make it truly gonzo. Which brings me to the idea of immortal play.

If 17-20th level characters are "Masters of the World" with "superheroic capabilities," then (say) 21-25 would be something beyond that, and 26-30 another tier up. So here's a basic structure:

21-24: Epic hero. A natural extension to 17-20, but moreso - and with epic boons and such. This would fill out the extent of mortal power. It might be similar to the current system, but formed into levels and with increases to proficiency, more spells, etc.

25-29: Quasi-deity. On the path to immortality. Among the most powerful beings in the campaign world, able to go one-on-one vs. the most powerful monsters and fiendish lords. To get to the next tier, some kind of "immortal elixir" is required, and/or granted by the gods.

30-39: Demigod. At level 30, true "ascension" occurs and immortality is attained. The PC enters the pantheons of gods and becomes effectively immortal, although without the power to influence masses (yet).

40-49: Lesser god. Play becomes more meta -- conflicts between gods, cosmic venues, etc. Able to incarnate as an avatar, yet still with a true form beyond the Prime Material Plane.

50 (level-less): Greater god. World-makers. Play is almost akin to world-building, but with the capacity to incarnate in avataric form.

Or something like that. Obviously the higher the tier, the more different and only sketched out the rules would become. Most epic campaigns would like remain below 30th, but elements of higher tier could be employed.

I'm doing something similar, but a quicker break. Lvl 20 / CR 20 is "mortal" limit. After that I have exalted ranks:

1. Rank 1 - Demigod (essentially mythic CR 21-25)
2. Rank 2 - Lesser god (essentially mythic CR 26-35)
3. Rank 3 - Intermediate god (essentially mythic CR 36-50)
4. Rank 4 - Greater god (essentially mythic CR 51-70)
5. Rank 5 - Elder god
6. Rank 6 - Over god

Most games would max out a Tier 4 IMO.

 

[Mercurius]

I have, thanks for the recommendation. This fell flat for me, and am making my own version.

Have you checked out the Epic Legacy Core Rulebook? I picked it up awhile ago, but haven't had a chance to get into it in any depth, so don't have an opinion - but was intrigued enough to buy it.

 

[dave2008]

I have, thanks for the recommendation. This fell flat for me, and am making my own version.

I have you checked out the UA reddit? There are some interesting beyond lvl 20 ideas out there for free.

Also, I'm publishing my version next month, but without additional levels

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Have you checked out the Epic Legacy Core Rulebook? I picked it up awhile ago, but haven't had a chance to get into it in any depth, so don't have an opinion - but was intrigued enough to buy it.

I took a look at it. There were some good ideas with it, but it also fell flat for me. I'm just going to finish my version.

 

[dave2008]

Have you checked out the Epic Legacy Core Rulebook? I picked it up awhile ago, but haven't had a chance to get into it in any depth, so don't have an opinion - but was intrigued enough to buy it.

I have and similar to @AcererakTriple6 thoughts on Epic Characters, it fell a little flat to me. However, of the two it is closer to what I want in an epic game than Epic Characters

 

[Mercurius]

I'm doing something similar, but a quicker break. Lvl 20 / CR 20 is "mortal" limit. After that I have exalted ranks:

1. Rank 1 - Demigod (essentially mythic CR 21-25)
2. Rank 2 - Lesser god (essentially mythic CR 26-35)
3. Rank 3 - Intermediate god (essentially mythic CR 36-50)
4. Rank 4 - Greater god (essentially mythic CR 51-70)
5. Rank 5 - Elder god
6. Rank 6 - Over god

Most games would max out a Tier 4 IMO.

I like that, and the wider level ranges are probably better for separating the greater gods from mortals.

I like "Elder Gods" in the hierarchy, btw. One way to envision this is via the scope of their power and influence:

Mortal - terrestrial, mortal
Demigod - local
Lesser God - regional/cultural
Intermediate God - national/continental
Greater God - planetary
Elder God - solar system
Overgod - galaxy
Allgod - universe
The One - multiverse

Or something like that. Doesn't quite work, but the basic idea is what I'm trying to get across.

 

[Mercurius]

I took a look at it. There were some good ideas with it, but it also fell flat for me. I'm just going to finish my version.

Looking forward to seeing it (assuming you publish or share).

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Looking forward to seeing it (assuming you publish or share).

If it gets to the point where I think it's developed enough to be published, I will do so.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay, so this thread is based around one question: Should D&D 5e have Epic Levels?

So, have at it. Answer the poll, and please comment down below with your thoughts on this topic.

If you believe so, should they just be normal class progression, but at higher levels? If yes, too what level? 30? 40? If not, should it be like Prestige Classes, or just multiclassing?

If you answered no, please say why. Is it because of epic spellcasting? Is it because most campaigns don't reach high levels? Or, do you just not care about this enough to want it?

If you're undecided, please say why.

I have been homebrewing a class system up to level 30, and would like to get some information from the community of how you feel on this topic.

I think “Epic” gameplay can and should be an additional optional layer that can be added to the game at any level.