D&D General Should difficulty increase to match optimization

[Blue]

IMO, players tend to have fun even when they are steamrolling most of the NPC's.

I don't disagree there are this type of player. On the other hand I've gone to our regular DM in one group to tell him that the combats were getting boring because there was not enough tension nor risk that we felt like we overcame real challenges. He was happy to get the feedback and adjusted.

I think there's a spectrum of players, and some may enjoy steamrolling and others not.

EDIT: Also, for every group I run for, regardless of system mastery level, there are times I let them steamroll and times it's really freaking hard. And in between. PCs should be reminded at times they are heroes - and reminded at other times how they earned that.

 

[FrogReaver]

I do. I also DM for other groups when, for example none of them want to DM or their DM must stay home and babysit or catches the Big Rona.

Also, optimization is not linear. There is not a Set Way to Optimize. Everyone is different. As a DM I often optimize foes for defense, protection, utility, and escape. The vast majority of optimizing players go only for MoRe DaMaGe! Or some other direct combat effect.

To be fair, martial classes don't usually get much else they are good at other than more damage - and if you sacrifice very much in the damage department, then cantrips can easily match your damage. So if you sacrifice that much in the damage department then from a defense/protection/utility/escape focus then usually from an optimization standpoint - you might as well have played a full caster.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

EDIT: Also, for every group I run for, regardless of system mastery level, there are times I let them steamroll and times it's really freaking hard. And in between. PCs should be reminded at times they are heroes - and reminded at other times how they earned that.

Very much this at our tables.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Seems a bit adversarial to me. Suggesting the DM only has fun when he's running challenging combat for the players. Something seems off there.

This. I get my satisfaction from my players solving the puzzle and winning the encounter.
However I do have most fun if the encounter also FEELS threatening to the players and I know they also do.
So often it boils down to look at the given monsters and try to make best use of their abilities.
The more players optimize, the more weaknesses are to exploit. Hit and run tactics are also useful. If one of the enemies just runs shouting "alarm, alarm" is often a very easy way to disrupt your player's preferred tactics.

 

[Scribe]

A spin off from the optimization poll. The question is simple, when players optimize should difficulty be dialed up to match?

Absolutely.

I've played optimized, I've played unoptimized.

If I, and everyone else, is optimized I'd expect challenges to increase significantly.

 

[Blue]

I've seen a lot of valid reasons out there for not changing, even if that's not my preference. My question is: would you change difficulty (by encounter composition or any other means, including adding sidekicks/NPCS) if you were playing with a smaller or larger group than normal? Say you only had 3 PCs, or 7.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Another way to think of this:

The game world contains areas of lower and higher danger. A more highly optimized party might be able to survive the areas of higher danger earlier (ie at slightly lower level) than a party that is not as highly optimized.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I've seen a lot of valid reasons out there for not changing, even if that's not my preference. My question is: would you change difficulty (by encounter composition or any other means, including adding sidekicks/NPCS) if you were playing with a smaller or larger group than normal? Say you only had 3 PCs, or 7.

It depends. I have DM'ed and played in a group with 2 PCs and one DM. I for my part did scale down random encounters a bit and had them level up a bit faster/had them start the actual adventure at level 2 instead of 1. I also allowed to save up 2 inspiration points and allowed them to use them reactively to reroll and a d20 or add 5 to AC against one attack. That was sufficient.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

IME, players who optimize want the DM to build more challenging encounters.

I will often use easy mooks as part of the setup of a challenging encounter, or as the "terrain" the boss uses in it's lair actions, but we fight infrequently enough that I don't really do easy fights.

 

[cmad1977]

I’d say yes… but it’s kind of organic. IF a party is so optimized as to be punching well above their weight… will they not simply be tasked with greater things?

Why would the powers that be ask for help with hobgoblins when THIS group can take on the giants in the gold mine?