D&D (2024) Should Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade be in the new PHB?

[TwoSix]

You...think they shouldn't print all the standard spells in the new PHB and make new players to D&D buy both the new PHB and the old PHB to be able to play the game?

Come on, it's not an expansion book. It's supposed to include all the standard PHB stuff.

<shrug> I've already stated my opinion on this topic over the past year in various threads, and I don't want to derail the thread further defending my idiosyncratic opinion.

 

[aco175]

It seems like spells that are must have for certain classes or combos I see where people are talking about dealing 100 points of damage at 5th level and such. Not sure if it is broken or just when using certain combos or multiclassing.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I think the updated Core PH should have the spells necessary to fulfill the existing class/subclass fantasies. There are a lot of melee spellcasters, so there should be a decent variety of such spells to enable those builds. Here are what I feel are good parameters:

1. If a previously printed non-PH spell is popular in theme and needs an update to clean it up, they might as well include the updated version in the PH. Does Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, or Lightning Lure need a power shift, or a description or template update to make it work with any other game updates?
2. If the previously printed spell is popular and does not need an update, leave it in the sourcebook it came from.
3. After deciding the results of previously printed spells, create brand new spells that help fulfill that weapon spellcaster theme/fantasy. They should be unique from everything that came before, via damage type and/or any special rider that accompanies the damage. Examples below:
   1. Greenflame blade has fire covered, Booming Blade covers thunder, Lighting Lure covers lightning, and True Strike covers Radiant, so try to focus on the other damage types.
   2. Don't reskin a "Booming Blade" variant as having piercing thorns that hinder and harm the enemy, because Ensnaring Strike already has that theme covered.
   3. Suggestion: Bleeding Blow: A Necromancy (necrotic) spell that causes your weapon to deal extra bleeding (necrotic) damage.
   4. Suggestion: Dispelling Strike: An Abjuration (psychic) spell that lets you attack as a Reaction when someone within 10ft. reach of you, that you can see, casts a spell. If you hit, it forces a Concentration check at disadvantage or the spell being cast is lost and concentration on an existing spell is disrupted.
   5. Suggestion: That anime weapon attack, where the weapon is swung, causing a 30 ft. (force) wave in a line. Deal extra damage to the first person in the line, and normal damage to everyone behind them.

Stuff like that.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think the updated Core PH should have the spells necessary to fulfill the existing class/subclass fantasies. There are a lot of melee spellcasters, so there should be a decent variety of such spells to enable those builds. Here are what I feel are good parameters:

1. If a previously printed non-PH spell is popular in theme and needs an update to clean it up, they might as well include the updated version in the PH. Does Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, or Lightning Lure need a power shift, or a description or template update to make it work with any other game updates?
2. If the previously printed spell is popular and does not need an update, leave it in the sourcebook it came from.
3. After deciding the results of previously printed spells, create brand new spells that help fulfill that weapon spellcaster theme/fantasy. They should be unique from everything that came before, via damage type and/or any special rider that accompanies the damage. Examples below:
   1. Greenflame blade has fire covered, Booming Blade covers thunder, Lighting Lure covers lightning, and True Strike covers Radiant, so try to focus on the other damage types.
   2. Don't reskin a "Booming Blade" variant as having piercing thorns that hinder and harm the enemy, because Ensnaring Strike already has that theme covered.
   3. Suggestion: Bleeding Blow: A Necromancy (necrotic) spell that causes your weapon to deal extra bleeding (necrotic) damage.
   4. Suggestion: Dispelling Strike: An Abjuration (psychic) spell that lets you attack as a Reaction when someone within 10ft. reach of you, that you can see, casts a spell. If you hit, it forces a Concentration check at disadvantage or the spell being cast is lost and concentration on an existing spell is disrupted.
   5. Suggestion: That anime weapon attack, where the weapon is swung, causing a 30 ft. (force) wave in a line. Deal extra damage to the first person in the line, and normal damage to everyone behind them.

Stuff like that.

The Anime weapon attack should be a property of the weapon as per BG 3

 

[Clint_L]

Although WotC isn't going to cop to it until at least 2025, Xanathar's and Tasha's are not long for this world. They're pulling in the A+ material into the 2024 PHB and the A through B stuff is going to be in the first post-2024 Everything book, leaving only the scraps that only a few people like (or are unbalanced -- I wouldn't be surprised if they handled the Twilight cleric by simply letting its source book go out of print).

That doesn't work because DnDBeyond.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That doesn't work because DnDBeyond.

They're not selling Volo's, Tome of Foes or Lost Mines any more. They can make the same decision with Xanathar's and Tasha's at any time. People who already have access to it will retain it, but over the next decade, the percentage of active users with the content will decline over time.

 

[mamba]

They're not selling Volo's, Tome of Foes or Lost Mines any more. They can make the same decision with Xanathar's and Tasha's at any time. People who already have access to it will retain it, but over the next decade, the percentage of active users with the content will decline over time.

Much like the 2014 cores will go out of print, I expect Xanathar and Tasha to go out of print with the 2026/7 ... of Everything book

 

[Clint_L]

They're not selling Volo's, Tome of Foes or Lost Mines any more. They can make the same decision with Xanathar's and Tasha's at any time. People who already have access to it will retain it, but over the next decade, the percentage of active users with the content will decline over time.

Yes, but they didn't do that to surreptitiously remove a sub-class. I don't see that happening.

They've effectively balanced Twilight Clerics for 2024 anyway, by virtue of buffing so many others.

 

[ninjayeti]

what the heck is "booming energy?" And why does it only hurt you if you move 5 feet or more?

Haven't you ever heard the expression "drop the boom" on someone? It's that.

Caster: " If you move 5 feet or more I am going to drop the boom on you."
Target: "What the heck does that even m...BOOM!"
Caster: "Told ya."

 

[aco175]

Haven't you ever heard the expression "drop the boom" on someone? It's that.

Caster: " If you move 5 feet or more I am going to drop the boom on you."
Target: "What the heck does that even m...BOOM!"
Caster: "Told ya."

I saw a few months ago where a protester got taken out by the camera boom.