D&D (2024) Should Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade be in the new PHB?

[TwoSix]

People trying to port characters with superpowers to D&D, instead of an appropriate superhero game system, is one of my pet peeves. It doesn't work. Stop trying to do it. Or at the very least, put in the work to adapt the character concept to a D&D context. No, you can't be Groot. Or Elsa. Captain America might work in very broad terms, but that shield is a legendary grade item and you don't get to start with it.

Mage-type characters with a single element specialization is a super common fantasy theme, though, not just a superhero concept. I can think of a dozen fantasy series where that's the most common type of mage in the setting. It's weird that D&D's idiosyncratic magical system makes it so difficult to pull off without severely nerfing the character.

Pathfinder's Kineticist class shows that it can be done within the D&D-like paradigm, as well.

 

[mellored]

Pathfinder's Kineticist class shows that it can be done within the D&D-like paradigm, as well.

Single damage type wouldn't work in pathfinder either. Kineticist have 2 and can expand it to 5 without much trouble.

Water deals cold or bludgeoning. And you can take options to make a water spear that does piercing, or have an acid blast.

So running into a cold immune target might limit your options, but not stop you all together.

So yea. A 5e dragon theme might have a fire breath, but also a claw and wing attack. A psion might deal psychic, but also telekinetic throw rocks.

 

[Yaarel]

I definitely want all of the Elemental theme spells in the 2024 Players Handbook.

The way 2014 removed them for the Elemenal Evil setting was unpleasant and inconvenient.

These Elemental spells include decent spells. But many are subpar, generally about a slot level too high for what the spell is worth. So when the Elemental spells become part of the Players Hanvdbook, there needs to be some balancing calibration for them.

 

[Kurotowa]

Mage-type characters with a single element specialization is a super common fantasy theme, though, not just a superhero concept. I can think of a dozen fantasy series where that's the most common type of mage in the setting. It's weird that D&D's idiosyncratic magical system makes it so difficult to pull off without severely nerfing the character.

D&D is not and never has been a universal fantasy genre simulator. You want something like GURPS for that. From the very start, D&D has been D&D, and everything added to it has been assimilated into D&D's own style. There's a ton of common tropes and archetypes that don't fit neatly into a D&D shaped box without some alteration and adjustment.

It can be a little hard to see this now, because D&D has been dominant for long enough that a lot of modern fantasy works have been based off D&D and so everything looks a lot more easily compatible. But in the big picture... no, D&D does not do everything. Not without translating it into a D&D style context.

 

[Undrave]

Yes. and also Toll the Dead for the Bard and Cleric.

 

[TwoSix]

Single damage type wouldn't work in pathfinder either. Kineticist have 2 and can expand it to 5 without much trouble.

True, but I never said "single damage type". I said "single element specialization as a fantasy theme", which is a very different meaning.

 

[TwoSix]

D&D is not and never has been a universal fantasy genre simulator. You want something like GURPS for that. From the very start, D&D has been D&D, and everything added to it has been assimilated into D&D's own style. There's a ton of common tropes and archetypes that don't fit neatly into a D&D shaped box without some alteration and adjustment.

The tension between "D&D as its own explicit fantasy genre" and "D&D as a toolbox for fantasy gaming" has existed for decades and isn't going anywhere.

D&D can't accommodate everything, but its cosmology is more than sufficiently open-ended to support both Elminster/Mordenkainen style "classic wizards" as well as specialized elemental casters like an Elsa or an Aang.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

People trying to port characters with superpowers to D&D, instead of an appropriate superhero game system, is one of my pet peeves. It doesn't work. Stop trying to do it. Or at the very least, put in the work to adapt the character concept to a D&D context. No, you can't be Groot. Or Elsa. Captain America might work in very broad terms, but that shield is a legendary grade item and you don't get to start with it.

I mean, there's a whole YouTube channel dedicated to proving you wrong. I think your issue is with the power level of 5E, not with what players do with that power.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

D&D is not and never has been a universal fantasy genre simulator. You want something like GURPS for that. From the very start, D&D has been D&D, and everything added to it has been assimilated into D&D's own style. There's a ton of common tropes and archetypes that don't fit neatly into a D&D shaped box without some alteration and adjustment.

It can be a little hard to see this now, because D&D has been dominant for long enough that a lot of modern fantasy works have been based off D&D and so everything looks a lot more easily compatible. But in the big picture... no, D&D does not do everything. Not without translating it into a D&D style context.

Al-Quadim in AD&D had sorcerors who could only cast universal spells and spells from 2 elements. Elementalists could only cast universal spells and spells from one element. Ghul Lords could only cast necromancy spells and use their HP for necromancy effects based on what manipulation proficiency they had (attack, defend, informative, and movement). I'm sure there are others, but there's at least 3 examples of highly focused casters.

Regardless of what has "always" been D&D there is a huge demand for this sort of thing.

 

[Kurotowa]

I mean, there's a whole YouTube channel dedicated to proving you wrong. I think your issue is with the power level of 5E, not with what players do with that power.

Let me highlight again the "put in the work to adapt the character concept to a D&D context" clause. It's people who want a straight expy, or who want to completely ignore the power range of the starting level of the campaign, who grind my gears.