D&D (2024) Should Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade be in the new PHB?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Let me highlight again the "put in the work to adapt the character concept to a D&D context" clause. It's people who want a straight expy, or who want to completely ignore the power range of the starting level of the campaign, who grind my gears.

I'm not sure how "powerful ice sorceress" doesn't work in a "D&D context." You are not communicating your issue very clearly.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Booming Blade... eh, I guess. I've always found it bizarre and impossible to visualize -- what the heck is "booming energy?" And why does it only hurt you if you move 5 feet or more?

Think about encapsulating your enemy in a bubble of thunderous energy. The bubble isn't so much a barrier, more of a trigger that pops if they try to move out of it. When they pop it, they take thunder damage. As long as they don't move out of the bubble, (or "square" on a battlemat), it will fade in a short while and not explode... but they were prevented from leaving that space. That is a cantrip-level control effect.

 

[Kurotowa]

I'm not sure how "powerful ice sorceress" doesn't work in a "D&D context." You are not communicating your issue very clearly.

I think we're talking past each other, with very different understanding of the terms involved.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think we're talking past each other, with very different understanding of the terms involved.

That's why I'm asking for clarity. "D&D context," to me, encompasses everything from grubbing in the gutters of Greyhawk City to swilling alien wine on the deck of the Spelljammer. I feel like Elsa, in particular, would blend in quite easily along many points along that line.

I'm not a big fan of the wild over the top fantasy stuff like Spelljammer myself, but it's been a D&D setting for 35 years now, so that kind of high-end stuff is definitely part of the picture for D&D.

 

[Kurotowa]

That's why I'm asking for clarity. "D&D context," to me, encompasses everything from grubbing in the gutters of Greyhawk City to swilling alien wine on the deck of the Spelljammer. I feel like Elsa, in particular, would blend in quite easily along many points along that line.

Ah, I see. I'm talking about the mechanical context of the D&D game system. In both real life and on online forums, I've seen newer or more casual players try to bringer fully realized character ideas that were formed with a complete disregard of the mechanics of the game.

Character's power is tied to their level, and most campaigns start at a low one. Spells are a limited resource and do specific things with a fixed power level; the Shape Water cantrip does not make you a waterbender. PCs are designed to be part of an ensemble party, not omni-competent lead protagonists. You will be advancing along the path of a fixed class progression, and while multiclassing and homebrew are a thing they have limits.

Too often, I've seen people advance detailed character concepts that ignore all of those, and get defensive when told they have to make a D&D character inspired by their favorite film or comic character and not a direct copy.

 

[Yaarel]

Ah, I see. I'm talking about the mechanical context of the D&D game system. In both real life and on online forums, I've seen newer or more casual players try to bringer fully realized character ideas that were formed with a complete disregard of the mechanics of the game.

Character's power is tied to their level, and most campaigns start at a low one. Spells are a limited resource and do specific things with a fixed power level; the Shape Water cantrip does not make you a waterbender. PCs are designed to be part of an ensemble party, not omni-competent lead protagonists. You will be advancing along the path of a fixed class progression, and while multiclassing and homebrew are a thing they have limits.

Too often, I've seen people advance detailed character concepts that ignore all of those, and get defensive when told they have to make a D&D character inspired by their favorite film or comic character and not a direct copy.

Part of translating any concept into D&D is determining which Tier such a concept becomes viable.

 

[Vikingkingq]

Think about encapsulating your enemy in a bubble of thunderous energy. The bubble isn't so much a barrier, more of a trigger that pops if they try to move out of it. When they pop it, they take thunder damage. As long as they don't move out of the bubble, (or "square" on a battlemat), it will fade in a short while and not explode... but they were prevented from leaving that space. That is a cantrip-level control effect.

I've always thought of it like static electricity; you don't move, and you don't get damaged. But if you scuff your feet against the "carpet," you get a nasty zetz.

 

[Vikingkingq]

But as to the subject, given how ubiquitous those two spells are for a wide range of character archetypes, it would seem a bit odd not to include them when a lot of experienced players are going to take them off the bat anyway.

Just seems like it would be creating an annoying paywall for new players who're grabbing the physical phb.

 

[Undrave]

But as to the subject, given how ubiquitous those two spells are for a wide range of character archetypes, it would seem a bit odd not to include them when a lot of experienced characters are going to take them off the bat anyway.

Just seems like it would be creating an annoying paywall for new players who're grabbing the physical phb.

Opposition t the inclusion also sounds like a kneejerk 'character builds are bad' reaction...

 

[Vikingkingq]

Character's power is tied to their level, and most campaigns start at a low one. Spells are a limited resource and do specific things with a fixed power level; the Shape Water cantrip does not make you a waterbender. PCs are designed to be part of an ensemble party, not omni-competent lead protagonists. You will be advancing along the path of a fixed class progression, and while multiclassing and homebrew are a thing they have limits.

Feels like there's a bit of an undistributed middle there. As I think I discussed on a Four Elements monk thread, there's the Elementalism cantrip (which is pretty weaksauce even for cantrips and doesn't really evoke the feeling of being an elementalist), versus say a cantrip or 1st level spell that was basically Gust/Control Flames/Mould Earth/Shape Water-on-a-stick.

That actually would do a good job of evoking the whole "bender" archetype while being weaker than say Gust of Wind/Continual Flame/Earth Tremor/Create or Destroy Water, and so on for higher-level spells.