D&D (2024) Should Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade be in the new PHB?

[Azzy]

Sorry, er-watching Bleach but if it is innate the warrior then in D&D terms it is more of a spell with the weapon as a component/focus

Yeah, I wish there were more of that kind of spell. Having played an EK, it really suffers for not having a whole lot that really drives home the magical martial.

 

[Mistwell]

Think about encapsulating your enemy in a bubble of thunderous energy. The bubble isn't so much a barrier, more of a trigger that pops if they try to move out of it. When they pop it, they take thunder damage. As long as they don't move out of the bubble, (or "square" on a battlemat), it will fade in a short while and not explode... but they were prevented from leaving that space. That is a cantrip-level control effect.

Except if someone forces you to move, it doesn't pop...which is weird. How does the bubble 1) know if you are willingly or unwillingly moving, and 2) why would it care about your willingness if it could know?

 

[Irlo]

I've only seen these cantrips in play for a short time. A rogue picked them up with the magic initiate feat and used one or the other with every single melee attack, because why not? It became tiresome very quickly. I imagine it would be the same with an eldritch knight, at least until extra attack kicks in.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Green-Flame Blade, definitely.

Booming Blade... eh, I guess. I've always found it bizarre and impossible to visualize -- what the heck is "booming energy?" And why does it only hurt you if you move 5 feet or more?

Definitely agreed. It's why I always take Green-Flame despite it being the weaker of the two.

What I want to see is either more - or more of the Sword Mage. The Aegis of Shielding and to an extent Ensnarement feel as if they fit (Assault would be higher level).

 

[DaedalusX51]

Definitely agreed. It's why I always take Green-Flame despite it being the weaker of the two.

What I want to see is either more - or more of the Sword Mage. The Aegis of Shielding and to an extent Ensnarement feel as if they fit (Assault would be higher level).

I rename it to Echoing Blade in my games. You strike someone with it and if they move they get hit with an echo of your attack. It just has a bad name and description, but the concept is solid.

 

[tetrasodium]

I've only seen these cantrips in play for a short time. A rogue picked them up with the magic initiate feat and used one or the other with every single melee attack, because why not? It became tiresome very quickly. I imagine it would be the same with an eldritch knight, at least until extra attack kicks in.

My experience with any PC who takes them. "cantrip" is 100% the wrong design space for what should have been a (sub)class ability or feat.

 

[Undrave]

I've only seen these cantrips in play for a short time. A rogue picked them up with the magic initiate feat and used one or the other with every single melee attack, because why not? It became tiresome very quickly. I imagine it would be the same with an eldritch knight, at least until extra attack kicks in.

More tiresome than just basic melee attacks??

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Yeah, I wish there were more of that kind of spell. Having played an EK, it really suffers for not having a whole lot that really drives home the magical martial.

I found eldritch knight so unfun that I ended up working with my DM to completely rebuild my character at level 8.

It just completely fails to capture any of the aspects which made the 3.5e duskblade, pathfinder magus, and 4e swordmage fun. The 1dnd playtest buffed it loads, but it wasn't ever lacking in power next to the other fighter subclasses. It still completely misses the point of a spellsword.

 

[Irlo]

More tiresome than just basic melee attacks??

Yes. Dropping a marker onto the monster's token to remember which target is subject to the boom every turn, making case by case decisions every round about how the target will react to that every turn, and, if it does move, rolling an extra die during the target's turn to do a few more hit points of damage, tracking that minor damage -- it's tiresome.

 

[tetrasodium]

More tiresome than just basic melee attacks??

Yes because it comes with either an angry back and forth trying to get the cantrip plus class abilities (ie extra attack/sneak attack/smite/etc) or regular frustration channeling over not being able to do both depending on how much the GM allows. The only exception is when a player finds a loophole allowing them to do both in a way that is ultimately incredibly broken. All of that is before the constant tracking of & cheese attempts at triggering the secondary booming blade rider thst the GM is expected to just mindlessly walk into GFB may avoid the secondary status in favor of a secondary target, but that extra target of damage just gets more & more broken once a loophole for attack+class features+cantrip is used.

The weapon "cantrips" don't work at all like cantrips & cause a lot of problems that either break things when applied to (sub)class features expecting cantrips to work like cantrips or they force the design of other (sub)classes to warp around avoiding them