Should MAD Classes be addressed in OneD&D

[Clint_L]

I was thinking that OneD&D's focus on feats is going to kind of suck for classes like Monk that are so Multiple Ability Dependent, because aside from the freebie at Level 1, it is still going to be hard for them to take anything but ASIs (which I guess is technically a feat in OneD&D, but you get my meaning). Dunno, it just seems like missing out on the fun.

I don't like that some classes are significantly more MAD than others, anyway. Seems like bad design. Is this the time to tweak classes like Monk to bring them in line with most other classes, when it comes to abilities? Or is it not an issue, even with feats becoming more prioritized?

 

[Lojaan]

I was thinking that OneD&D's focus on feats is going to kind of suck for classes like Monk that are so Multiple Ability Dependent, because aside from the freebie at Level 1, it is still going to be hard for them to take anything but ASIs (which I guess is technically a feat in OneD&D, but you get my meaning). Dunno, it just seems like missing out on the fun.

I don't like that some classes are significantly more MAD than others, anyway. Seems like bad design. Is this the time to tweak classes like Monk to bring them in line with most other classes, when it comes to abilities? Or is it not an issue, even with feats becoming more prioritized?

It's a valid question, just hard to address until we see the classes.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

We really need to see the monk first to meaningfully comment.

 

[Horwath]

unarmed defense from monk can remove wisdom and just add prof bonus.

similar to paladins "save aura"

just in that case it should be half prof bonus(round up), increase radius to 60ft to compensate.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The monk is not that MAD as people make him out to be.

He can easily start with 16 AC and now with first level feat (tough or tavern brawler for example) and (assumed) offhand attack without bonus action and the ability to dodge as a bonus action when it matters, the monk is survivable and mobile. AC is not all that matters. If you can reduce the number of attacks directed at you, you can keep up.

20 dex, 16 wis is plenty.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Personally, I think they should make all classes MAD and then take away common and guaranteed (i.e. non-magical) ways to permanently increase ability scores after character creation. But that second part is probably the AD&D player in me talking.

 

[orangefruitbat]

Personally, I think they should make all classes MAD and then take away common and guaranteed (i.e. non-magical) ways to permanently increase ability scores after character creation. But that second part is probably the AD&D player in me talking.

Agreed. More MAD (across all classes) will open up character creation and make it more interesting. Ranged spell attacks should use Dex, fancy battle moves should use Int, etc.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

For less MAD I think some more classes should then use other ability scores for AC or attack bonuses, and other ability scores for HP. Maybe being spiritually attuned as a Monk makes one healthier (aka Wis for HP bonuses).

For more MAD across all classes, I think it should be Dex as the attack bonus stat for everything (with heavier weapons needing a minimum Str), Str as the damage bonus stat for almost all melee weapons, Wis as the damage bonus stat for almost all ranged weapons.

 

[MichaelSomething]

But MAD classes are an important concept to reduce saminess in classes!

 

[TwoSix]

Ideally, most characters would start with their primary ability being either max or one point away from max, whether that be through more generous point buy or by lowering the max cap from 20 to 18.

Then choosing to increase your secondary via ASI becomes an option, but is only roughly equivalent in utility to a strong feat choice, not the obvious choice that increasing your primary is.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I'd rather every class ended up MAD, rather than all classes ending up SAD.

MAD classes require actual thought and the juggling of scores as you decide what you want that character to be better at. It introduces more build variety even within the same class.

 

[Corinnguard]

After looking at the classes in Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition, I would have to say that all of the classes in One D&D need to be MAD. MAD allows for greater character customization so that no two members of the same class look exactly alike.

 

[Li Shenron]

If they had the guts to make a new edition (i.e. revised rules) instead of just rehashing character options to push everyone to buy the same game again, I would certainly be interested in trying to make all 6 abilities useful to everyone. I'd rather see everyone MAD than keep having to witness the trite stat-dumping trick.

 

[Campbell]

I would really appreciate a different model for ability scores that was more generous to secondary and tertiary ability scores.

 

[Undrave]

Every class should have 1 primary and 1 secondary dependant on subclass choice, where the innate bonus of an ability help change the flavour of you build. You can have a STR/CON Barbarian who is really hard to take down and a brute, or a STR/WIS Barbarian for whom rages involve a spiritual element and who is more in tune with nature.

You could have Monks who go DEX/WIS or DEX/INT or even DEX/STR.

Personally, I think they should make all classes MAD and then take away common and guaranteed (i.e. non-magical) ways to permanently increase ability scores after character creation. But that second part is probably the AD&D player in me talking.

Agreed. More MAD (across all classes) will open up character creation and make it more interesting. Ranged spell attacks should use Dex, fancy battle moves should use Int, etc.

I'd rather every class ended up MAD, rather than all classes ending up SAD.

MAD classes require actual thought and the juggling of scores as you decide what you want that character to be better at. It introduces more build variety even within the same class.

It's good in theory but I find it'd probably lead to more analysis paralysis and frustration. And you'd probably need to shift a lot of math to expect a lower score overall. Primary+Secondary feels more straight forward to manage and if the class is built properly you can have actual variety in secondaries.

I'd also be affraid that if the optimal idea is 'good score in everything' you'll end up with lots of flatter characters IMO. Characters who are great at one thing and terrible at another are more interesting than character who are OK at everything.

 

[James Gasik]

Personally, I think they should make all classes MAD and then take away common and guaranteed (i.e. non-magical) ways to permanently increase ability scores after character creation. But that second part is probably the AD&D player in me talking.

Or alternately, do what AD&D did, and when increasing ability scores beyond 18, each ASI improves the ability score by a fraction. Ie, raising lower scores is fine, trying to become a demigod is hard.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I agree that they should make all classes MAD and make the point buy less stingy.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I agree that they should make all classes MAD and make the point buy less stingy.

Meanwhile I'm here wanting all classes MAD, and point buy to be more stingy (and to let scores go to a minimum of 6 rather than 8). I like the whole 'zero to hero' storyline, but sadly DnD seems to lean towards the 'hero to superhero' storyline.

I even got this ruleset for a brutal one shot I've got set up:

Ability Scores: Character scores are generated using a 15 point, point buy. With the minimum score being 6, and the maximum score being 13 (before racial bonuses are applied). Point costs are displayed below.
6: -2
7: -1
8: 0
9: 1
10: 2
11: 3
12: 4
13: 5

 

[payn]

Personally, I think they should make all classes MAD and then take away common and guaranteed (i.e. non-magical) ways to permanently increase ability scores after character creation. But that second part is probably the AD&D player in me talking.

 

[payn]

Gotta say it warms my heart to see all the MAD support in here. Often, folks want the game to be SAD AF.