Should PCs be forced to act a certain way because of their stats?

[The Shaman]

What an intelligent, well constructed and reasonable argument you put forth; everybody should give you lots and lots of XP.

Oooo, how ironical!

I could cite English football firms as examples of what soccer fans are like everywhere in the world, but that would create something of a misleading picture, doncha think?

Dragonlance is the poster child for D&D at its most lametastic. Even the big wheel of Stilton that is the Forgettable Realms doesn't rise to the level of Dragonlance Epoisses.

All in my opinion, as ever.

 

[avin]

Hubert loves anything and everything to do with ninjas. He's watched every video he can find on ninjas, taken martial arts courses through his recreation center, and ordered weapons and clothing from catalogs. In roughly d20 terms, he is a 1st level ninja.

With a dexterity of 6.

He has no natural ability whatsoever, getting by on whatever skills he's been able to glean up to this point.

Now tell me again how low ability scores should be roleplayed?

He loves ninjas, he understands theory, but he won't be able to do it. Worst level 1 ninja in universe or a commoner ninja-wannabe?

I fail to understand your question. How he'll roleplay it? Maybe as a comical character. Maybe delusional. It's up to to the player to figure out "how".

See, I like superheroes, I watched tons of movies and read tons of comic books but I'm still unable to fly.

 

[LurkAway]

Take the Dragonlance character Raistlin Majere. Now, in the fiction he's described as weak, sickly, needs this medicinal tea to keep him going. He's constantly hacking out his lungs and leaning on either his staff or his brother to keep from falling over.

Very physically weak character right? I certainly thought so. Then I picked up the Dragonlance modules and looked at the actual stats:

I remember reading that the Dragonlance novels were inspired by actual gameplay of the modules. Kinda like "based on a true D&D story" but not exactly modelling the gameplay.

OTOH, by the time he got the title of Master of the Past and the Present, I think (I can't remember exactly) he became much stronger.

 

[Hussar]

I remember reading that the Dragonlance novels were inspired by actual gameplay of the modules. Kinda like "based on a true D&D story" but not exactly modelling the gameplay.

OTOH, by the time he got the title of Master of the Past and the Present, I think (I can't remember exactly) he became much stronger.

Fair enough. Artistic license and all that. However, the whole "Raistlin is a weak guy" came out of the player's portrayal of that character at the table. The player made up the whole medicinal tea thing and all the rest.

Yet, this is not backed up by the mechanics.

 

[LurkAway]

Fair enough. Artistic license and all that. However, the whole "Raistlin is a weak guy" came out of the player's portrayal of that character at the table. The player made up the whole medicinal tea thing and all the rest.

Yet, this is not backed up by the mechanics.

You provided the stats for Raistlin at 20th level. This is not the weak coughing Raistlin of low level. As I stated, I believe he became much more healthy at 20th level. You need to find the stats for Raistlin from Dragons of Despair module to make your point.

Even then, how do you know how Tracy Hickman (or whoever it was that roleplayed Raistlin in the sessions that inspired the novels) roleplayed the character as weakly as protrayed in the novels? Maybe Raistlin was roleplayed as a healthier man reduced to 10 Str as if he had a flu or something. I am concerned you are too quick to jump to conclusions about game sessions that we don't know much about.

Edit: This actually supports your argument (scroll down to 'creation of raistlin') but it still doesn't tell us how weakly Raistlin was roleplayed in actual gameplay sessions vs artistic license of the novels: jovialpriest.blogspot.com/2011/01/ability-score-of-3-is-unplayable_19.html

 

[Hussar]

Well, DL5 (found here has the stats for Raistlin at 3rd level and he has exactly the same Str and Con as at 20th level.

Yet, he goes from weak and frail to strong and whatnot. But, his stats don't actually change. And, I know that Raistlin was portrayed as weakly as in the novels because I've read the interviews in Dragon Magazine and other places.

Again, even if it wasn't played up in the game, there's still this huge disconnect between the portrayal of the character in the novels and what the character's actual stats say. Which is my entire point in a nutshell. The portrayal doesn't fit the mechanics.

Is it still artistic license if I ignore the encumbrance on my 8 Str character? Would that be perfectly fine?

 

[billd91]

Well, DL5 (found here has the stats for Raistlin at 3rd level and he has exactly the same Str and Con as at 20th level.

Yet, he goes from weak and frail to strong and whatnot. But, his stats don't actually change. And, I know that Raistlin was portrayed as weakly as in the novels because I've read the interviews in Dragon Magazine and other places.

Again, even if it wasn't played up in the game, there's still this huge disconnect between the portrayal of the character in the novels and what the character's actual stats say. Which is my entire point in a nutshell. The portrayal doesn't fit the mechanics.

Is it still artistic license if I ignore the encumbrance on my 8 Str character? Would that be perfectly fine?

Did they ignore encumbrance with Raistlin?

Let's ask the important questions here. Did playing Raistlin as weak, unhealthy require game-based mechanics? No. Raistlin managed to survive it all, so no real indication he had a hit point penalty. I don't recall him loading up with tons of loot either. Maybe he was more of a hypocondriac than actually was deficient.

 

[Umbran]

I think playing down, like Raistlin, is a heck of a lot less problematic than playing up.

You can think of Raistlin's stats in this way - he is, in fact, sickly. But, he's also a protagonist hero in a universe in which such people are different.

When it comes to die rolls and luck, that sickly hero survives a little better than you'd expect. The universe protects him (or at least doesn't penalize him) a bit, when it would not for a person in the same level of health who wasn't heroic.

So, the stat represents not just his physical abilities, but a bit of metaphysical status as well.

 

[LurkAway]

When it comes to die rolls and luck, that sickly hero survives a little better than you'd expect. The universe protects him (or at least doesn't penalize him) a bit, when it would not for a person in the same level of health who wasn't heroic.

Raistlin had a pact with Fistandantilus at the time, during the Test. Raistlin didn't grow up strong, but I believe it was that pact that broke his health and required medicine IIRC. So perhaps low-level Raistlin's ill-health was balanced out by Fistandantilus' essence. Later, when Raistlin defeated Fistandantilus, it all balanced out again (no Fistandantilus, but no ill health either) which is why his Str/Con remains the same.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Yes Raislin's ill health is curse-thing, not really stat related. Plus naturally brotherly competition at earlier times had led to low self-esteem what came to physical ability. Raistin the character often felt jealous of his brother for physicall prowress and at same tiime thought he was so much smarter. And Caramon weren't that dumb just not as brilliant. I think Raistlin was bitter person at many levels.