D&D 5E Should player's assume if it's in the DMG then it's RAW?

[GMforPowergamers]

But they are rules that must go through the DM first. You as a player should not assume that magic item creation is automatically in the game.

I think you are being a little unfair here. in my experience there are some players that also DM, and some that don't. Of those that do they always read the DMG, of those that don't there is still a % that read the DMG... so my experience more read it then don't... it is only human nature to assume you know what is coming, so when those people read rule X is y, that is what they belive.

now your example sounds to me like the PC just went with the rule, I don't understand why you changed it (you gave us no explanation other then 'not in my world'. Depending on the amount of trust you built with your players that may be enough, I know I could say that and none of my normal PCs would balk, however I don't know your situation.

my Tuesday night crew and I have been playing since 3.0 was the newist game and 2 of the 4 pcs played some 2e games with me as well, however when Ross or Jon run games (we alternate) they better have a good explanation, because we don't trust them to run as fun or consistant games...


example: A DM who isn't with us any more Tony once ran a low magic game. He diss allowed starting as a caster, and had weird training rules... at 7th level the party of 6 PCs had 3 items between them, and had just found a 4th, it was a +1 weapon no one could use. A player went to sell it to a person who could use it and had TONS of money and said "Give me 10,000 gp and you can have this powerful artifact" the DM laughed and said "What, no I'll give you 1,000gp why would I buy it more then that when I could pay 2,000 to have one made for me" so the player said "Wow, you know someone that can make magic weapons, please introduce us..." then the DM got mad and said out of game "Dude, you can't but magic items in my world, but my NPC isn't dumb enough to pay over the DMG value"

to this day (8ish years later) we use that at the table as our example of being too dumb to house rule...

I don't know your group, or your social contract... but I don't think your PC did anything wrong

 

[Nebulous]

Why not? Its a core rule book and obviously also includes rules which are used by the players.

A player can't assume just because it's in the DMG it is allowed in the game. I mean, they can assume that, but it's an incorrect assumption. I myself flat out ban item creation unless it is low level consumables. I also DM exclusively, so my players will never buy, and might not even browse the DMG. What they DO ask me is if the DMG has alternate rules for such as such before we make a decision to house rule. They like to know if something is officially stated somewhere before we make it up ourselves.

 

[Morrus]

But they are rules that must go through the DM first. You as a player should not assume that magic item creation is automatically in the game.

Are you asking us, or telling us?

How it works in your game is going to be different to how it works in mine. All that matters is that everyone playing this game together (including you) is on the same page and has the same expectations.

Just talk to 'em. Honestly, it'll fix things like magic!

 

[Sailor Moon]

I think you are being a little unfair here. in my experience there are some players that also DM, and some that don't. Of those that do they always read the DMG, of those that don't there is still a % that read the DMG... so my experience more read it then don't... it is only human nature to assume you know what is coming, so when those people read rule X is y, that is what they belive.

now your example sounds to me like the PC just went with the rule, I don't understand why you changed it (you gave us no explanation other then 'not in my world'. Depending on the amount of trust you built with your players that may be enough, I know I could say that and none of my normal PCs would balk, however I don't know your situation.

my Tuesday night crew and I have been playing since 3.0 was the newist game and 2 of the 4 pcs played some 2e games with me as well, however when Ross or Jon run games (we alternate) they better have a good explanation, because we don't trust them to run as fun or consistant games...


example: A DM who isn't with us any more Tony once ran a low magic game. He diss allowed starting as a caster, and had weird training rules... at 7th level the party of 6 PCs had 3 items between them, and had just found a 4th, it was a +1 weapon no one could use. A player went to sell it to a person who could use it and had TONS of money and said "Give me 10,000 gp and you can have this powerful artifact" the DM laughed and said "What, no I'll give you 1,000gp why would I buy it more then that when I could pay 2,000 to have one made for me" so the player said "Wow, you know someone that can make magic weapons, please introduce us..." then the DM got mad and said out of game "Dude, you can't but magic items in my world, but my NPC isn't dumb enough to pay over the DMG value"

to this day (8ish years later) we use that at the table as our example of being too dumb to house rule...

I don't know your group, or your social contract... but I don't think your PC did anything wrong

How is it being unfair? His role was that of the player and not the DM so the book he should be using is the PHB and the book I use is the DMG. Just because you may DM doesn't automatically mean you are to use the rules from the DMG when you are a player. I think the DMG contains rules but doesn't contain "the" rules for playing the game.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Are you asking us, or telling us?

How it works in your game is going to be different to how it works in mine. All that matters is that everyone playing this game together (including you) is on the same page and has the same expectations.

Just talk to 'em. Honestly, it'll fix things like magic!

I understand that we all play things different in our home games so that's not really the issue here. It's the default assumption of the game. I don't always play with people I know or with my usual group. Sometimes I will guest DM so I rely on the default of the game. I believe that if the material in the DMG was for a players then it would be in the PHB and not the DMG.

 

[KarinsDad]

Then I guess the question becomes this. Should you, as a player, go and read up on the rules in the DMG and assume they are a part of the game?

I don't think it was my fault that I didn't discuss how selling magic items went because I feel like the player shouldn't have gone and read the DMG and assumed that's the way it was done in my game.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for players to read the DMG.

This is a game. Meant to be fun. It's fun for players to read the DMG and to understand how the game system works beyond the PHB. It's also good for players to be motivated enough to read the DMG since that might encourage them to become future DMs (DMs are the rarest of players still).

Having said that, it's still the DM's game and any house rule changes to the DMG are still DM property. I do not agree with Morrus that the DM has to tell the players his Monster Manual or DMG house rules ahead of time. Just his PHB house rules.

 

[Sailor Moon]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for players to read the DMG.

This is a game. Meant to be fun. It's fun for players to read the DMG and to understand how the game system works beyond the PHB. It's also good for players to be motivated enough to read the DMG since that might encourage them to become future DMs (DMs are the rarest of players still).

Having said that, it's still the DM's game and any house rule changes to the DMG are still DM property. I do not agree with Morrus that the DM has to tell the players his Monster Manual or DMG house rules ahead of time. Just his PHB house rules.

Yeah, reading the DMG is perfectly fine. I should have worded that a bit better. What I was referring to was basically as a player you should stay away from the DMG and just assume the information you need to know is in the PHB.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yeah, reading the DMG is perfectly fine. I should have worded that a bit better. What I was referring to was basically as a player you should stay away from the DMG and just assume the information you need to know is in the PHB.

The player should not stay away from the DMG.

The player can read whatever he wants. PHB, MM, or DMG.

And the player can assume that the core rules of the DMG are core rules. Including rule 0 (I assume that there is a rule 0 in 5E). This means that the player can assume DMG default core rules, but the DM is free to change them without telling the players ahead of time. The DMG says so (i.e. rule 0).

 

[Sailor Moon]

And the player can assume that the core rules of the DMG are core rules. Including rule 0 (I assume that there is a rule 0 in 5E). This means that the player can assume DMG default core rules, but the DM is free to change them without telling the players ahead of time. The DMG says so (i.e. rule 0).

I disagree 100%

There is a reason why we have a DMG and a PHB. Why should the players assume anything in the DMG is core? I believe what's in the DMG is for the DM to pick and choose what he wants to use. The player should assume nothing in the DMG is there and the DM will inform them on what is used.

 

[Derren]

I disagree 100%

There is a reason why we have a DMG and a PHB. Why should the players assume anything in the DMG is core? I believe what's in the DMG is for the DM to pick and choose what he wants to use. The player should assume nothing in the DMG is there and the DM will inform them on what is used.

The reason we have a DMG and PHB is because otherwise the book gets too thick.
I agree with KarinsDad, the players can reasonably assume that all rules which are not specifically marked as optional to be in effect unless the DM tells them otherwise. The part I disagree with is the one about "not telling them ahead of time. To keep it fair the DM should inform the players of house rules before the game starts.