Should rings be able to function for low level characters?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Can you please provide some sources for legends and fiction that treat magic rings as trivial items, like D&D does?

Few treat magic rings as trivial items, but many treat them as items that anyone can use.

Several even treat rings as items that anyone can use in a limited sense, but only with time, knowledge and exposue does one gain access to the full array of their ability.

If you look at European legends, the concept of a ring or cloak that can make you invisible is fairly common, and shows up in Grimm's Faerie tales. In Plato's Republic, we find the story of the Ring of Gyges (an invisibility ring). There are also legends about rings that give one power over a particular being, like a djinn. (Once you lose the ring, however, your life may be forfeit...) Aladdin found the ring by which he commanded the djinn early on in his adventures...

Those legends provided the basis for JRRT's "One Ring" which anyone can use to make themselves invisible, but continued exposure to the ring...well, you know the story. AFAIK, the other rings mentioned in the story are magical and not limited by stature (though they were conferred upon Rulers, it was for tactical reasons, not limitations upon the rings themselves).

Similarly, the ability to use a ring (or lamp) of 3 wishes is not limited by one's social stature, power or other means of measuring "level."

Andvarinaut, the famous Ring of the Niebelungens from The Volsunga Saga and The Nibelungenlied, is magical, but its magic (beyond its curse) is never detailed. However, it passes from person to person quite freely, and without regard for stature.

The (real) Kingmoor Ring and the Bramham Moor Ring are inscribed with charms of healing and protection.

Of the less powerful rings, you can find some that merely make one more lucky, or makes one more attractive (such as in Thackaray's The Rose and The Ring).

While not technically a ring, a bracelet in CS Lewis' Voyage of the Dawn Treader turns a young boy into a dragon (and this is definitely a negative in the storyline).

 

[Jan van Leyden]

In LotR, there are many magical rings in existence. Gladriel, the Lady of Lothlorien, explains that one cannot use the rings unless they already have some considerable amount of power. If this is also the case in D&D, then it excites me that magical rings will be as wondrous and powerful as they are in the works of Tolkien (with the obvious exception of The One! Haha.)

But why make one instance in literature into a basic rule?

It's okay to design rings in a way that only makes them suitable for higher level characters, but a pure mechanical restriction?

This is the most computer game-like thing I've yet read about 4e. What will happen if a heroic PC finds a magical ring and puts it on his finger? Will it slip of? Will the ring automatically move into the backpack again? No, now I see the reasoning:

PCs grow fingers only after reaching 11th level! That's why they can't use magical rings before!

---
Huldvoll

Jan van Leyden

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Gladriel, the Lady of Lothlorien, explains that one cannot use the rings unless they already have some considerable amount of power. I

As is evident from the history of the One Ring, she is mistaken, or at least, overstating the case.

It is even possible that Sauron placed that restriction on all rings save the One Ring as a tactical decision- the ringbearer would have powerful beings at his command regardless of his own current stature. Thus, even a weakened Sauron would be quite powerful if he regained his ring...

 

[delericho]

Disallowing Bilbo and Frodo Baggins from making use of a Ring of Invisibility is a spectacularly bad idea.

Oh, and I agree that the wording of the poll is bad.

 

[Talislan]

No option for "let's wait and see a freaking ring before leaping to judgments about how this is the worst rule ever"? Poll is useless.

Whilst I enjoy the conjecture in these forums thatdarnedbob IMHO is quite right. Better to discuss what we think may be the reasoning behind this seemingly strange change.

Personally (trying to think outside the box) with the talk of artefacts and Powers that have been going on I am thinking maybe rings no longer have 'permanant' powers attached to them (AC+1 etc.). Maybe this kind of thing is reserved for other more sizeable items or for artifacts. Makes sense if it needs a larger item to imbue it with enough 'Power' to have a sustainable effect.
If therefore rings hold powers which have a minimal use or recharge rate (like maybe invisibility 3/day) it makes more sense that a character would need the necessary experience to make use of these powers. This would be all the more true of offensive magic like 'Ray of x' or 'fireball' as these could have an unbalancing effect on lower level encounters now that the CR systems seems to have floated off into the ether.

If one off 'artefacts' can fill the plot void of things like 'the one ring' LoTR style then I don't see why this 'mechanic' should be detremental to the game in any way. In fact think on this:

5th level character finds clearly what is a 'magical' ring at the end of his/her adventure. Next time out with their buddies they have to follow a subplot to identify the rings power whilst over-coming the sinister undertakings of the maleveolent 'bad guy'. Having turned the tide and discovered said power, they make their merry adventuring way to bring down the ultimate antagonist. By the time they come face to face with the opposition they are level 11. They have roleplayed the journey of finding the secret behind the ring and can now use it to help finish the final battle. (and use your imagination folks, this doesn't necessarily mean ring=ultimate weapon for killing bad guy, I mean come on your better than that )

This is my theory and again IMHO would make the use of magic items a hell of a lot more useful to 'roleplay'

Cheers T.

 

[Lanefan]

Yuck. Just...yuck, on so many levels.

It arbitrarily cuts into my ability to design new items for my game.

It arbitrarily makes one type of item far more significant than the others. I've always been a fan of pretty much any magic property being enchantable into any type of item, providing someone's willing to build it...which includes "weak" or oddball rings.

It goes against one of the stated design goals of 4e, that a PC progresses smoothly through the levels and that each level-bump is much the same; here, an arbitrary (and unnecessary) distinction is being shoehorned in between levels 10 and 11, and levels 20 and 21. Hero-paragon-whatever should be *guidelines*, not hard-and-fast rules.

I'm quite surprised the vote isn't much higher for "no", though it's not the best-worded of polls and due to this there's probably some backlash votes for 'yes'.

Lanefan

 

[Samuel Leming]

Yeah, this 'ring thing' is the worst idea I've seen yet. I foresee much mocking...



Sam

 

[Deep Blue 9000]

Just curious-- in World of Warcraft, are there items that require you must be X level before you can equip it? I know there are in Everquest, but I am pretty sure the D&Designers were more into WoW.

Yes, almost all items are like this in wow.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

To answer the question asked, it depends entirely on what rings will do.

Magic rings have always been a very disunified bunch of items in D&D, with no rhyme or reason to their powers or power level; you have weak-bordering-on-useless baubles like Ring of Water Walking, so-useful-as-to-be-mandatory ones like Rings of Protection, and really really powerful ones like Rings of Elemental Command.

So, IMO, the 4e designers had three courses of action with rings: either leave them as they are, fold them into wondrous items (which would also be perfectly reasonable), or give them some unity of purpose and use, just as 3e did with wands, staffs and rods.

 

[Derren]

This is a horrible idea.
Where is the suspension of disbelieve when rings only operate when you reach a specific level? Thats nonsense.

It look like WoW/other MMO (yes, old argument) where mechanics come before making a believable world. That works for a MMO but imo not for an PnP.