D&D 5E Should the Paladin be changed into a more generic half-caster magic knight?

[Mind of tempest]

Wouldn't this be for the most part be the Fighter Eldritch Knight? All it lacks is the smite, I suppose that could be done with a 1-2 level dip into paladin (thus not needing to take the oath)?

1/4 casters are not halfcasters also a dex eldrich knight works paladin not so much

 

[Mind of tempest]

Three months isn't anywhere near long enough to warrant this level of response.

Anyway, I personally feel that Warlock can better fulfill the generic half-caster magic knight shtick than Paladin.

a warlock is closer to a cleric just of a weaker or not-sanctioned power.

Yeah this is a major problem with the design space. In prior editions and pathfinder, it's the arcane gish who applies magic damage and effects through weapon strikes. While the paladin divine smite was a lot more narrow and limited "Add X radiant damage"

But this who niche is now on the Paladin, but also that means it comes with Paladin's narrow and baked in flavour too.

Which is a huge part of why the arcane gish class topic is so contentious.

if the arcane gish is an int caster lean into brains and strategy and make them more versatile between dex and str

 

[ECMO3]

With 5E, the Paladin's fluff changed to be less reliant on a deity and more reliant on an oath. Conviction in said oath unlocks all kinds of supernatural powers for the Paladin; essentially, their Charisma -- their Force of Will -- enables them to create miracles, smite enemies of their oath, heal the sick, and so on.

But what if the Paladin embraced this generic oath idea more? An oath doesn't have to be divine magic, and the Paladins IRL aren't that far apart from the Knights of the Round. In this way, perhaps "Lay on Hands" could be turned into one of a few potential options the Paladin picks, and their choice of subclass has a greater impact on their spell list. A Paladin in service of a lich would essentially be a Death Knight, and have more necromancy spells; a Paladin in service to an Archmage is your more generic spellblade. The best part is that by giving Smite a customizable damage type, you could easily flex the Paladin's flavor any number of ways. And of course you can still have a Paladin who serves gods or whatever.

Anyway, this is just a little idea, not one I'm sure I'll pursue as I enjoy my own Pendragon class, but the Paladin-as-Magic Knight could potentially better address the many varied tastes D&D players are meant to have.

I think this is a good idea, but I think to do it right you need to really get rid of divine smite. The smite spells are ok but should not be able to be upcast.

Keeping Divine Smite in the game would keep the class as highly martial focused and move away from the magic knight IMO.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Paladin is one of those classes that gets more boring the more generic it gets. I think the current paladin is almost the right amount of flavor and generic.

I preferred the paladin more flavorful and less generic than currently the case in WotC D&D. 3e hit the sweet spot there for me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would rather have a Paladin be the Paladiniest Paladin to ever Paladin and then a separate class for Death Knight; but since WOTC designers and a big chunk of the playerbase seems allergic to new classes, I am definitely open to seeing how this idea is developed.

Does the player base as a whole dislike new classes? I always thought that was a WotC thing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It has to walk a fine line, because part of maintaining D&D’s market dominance is selling the promise of a big tent system that can handle whatever you might want to use it for, but it also needs to “feel like D&D,” or the general reception to 4e happens. So, it needs to have enough of an identity to keep that nebulous D&D feel, but also be generic enough that you can easily file the serial numbers off of it if you want to.

For me, the answer for that is to stop demanding market dominance so hard. I think it actively makes the game worse.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Explicitly promised? No. Heavily implied? I think the official Rick and Morty tie-in product speaks for itself there.

I wouldn't use that as an example if anything D&D should be doing more of personally.

 

[Gladius Legis]

I preferred the paladin more flavorful and less generic than currently the case in WotC D&D. 3e hit the sweet spot there for me.

3e's Paladin was one of the most ineffective classes in D&D history.

 

[Charlaquin]

For me, the answer for that is to stop demanding market dominance so hard. I think it actively makes the game worse.

Oh, it undoubtedly does. Profit motives are the enemy of quality art.

 

[Charlaquin]

I wouldn't use that as an example if anything D&D should be doing more of personally.

I wasn’t.