Should the whole idea of class skills be done away with?

[reapersaurus]

I agree completely with everyone who is unhappy with the current skills system in D&D, and believe it to be a hindrence to fun and roleplay, not a benefit to the game.

Some fixes that were proposed were:
INT bonus number of skills are considered class skills. : Terrible idea. Favors wizards, requires fighters to be smart to be able to Diplomatic (or whatever they want to be good at)- BAD IDEA.

Requiring a feat (or multiclass) to get class skills - yeah, let's take away MORE things from a player, and give them less things they can do with their PC - that's fun.
Require them to not make the character build the way they want it is not the direction I prefer my games to go.

This obsessive adherence to "balance" is making me feel violent.
There's nothing inherently "unbalancing" about allowing a cleric to be good at Moving Silently, or a wizard to be good at Perform.

Anything that makes it more fun for the group as a whole should be the primary (just about the ONLY) criteria when deciding things like these.

If I had my drothers, NO skills would be useful in combat - I don't agree with the approach of combat-applicable skills, since by definition it means that the rogue has an advantage in combat, and that is a flaw in 3E D&D.
Fighters should be the best in combat is one of the lynchpins of the system, yet they have combat applicable skills that the fighter doesn't get, and that he gets almost zero skills to begin with.

That's a weakness of the system, straight-up.

 

[reapersaurus]

Heheh, thanks for the encouragment. I do think I will indeed try this out.
- after all, isn't the rogue the only one who'll really have the skill points to properly take advantage of all the skills being opened up?

Good point.

Actually, you should probably follow-up your class-skill change with more points for all classes.
Many people have given classes 2 more skill points per level, and it's worked to give the campaign what you seem to be looking for.

Both those changes together are a bit radical, though - you might want to realistically try starting with:
1) Give all classes 2 more skill points per level.
2) Grant every PC at character creation 3 skills to be "character skills" - something they're good at, regardless of what they're training in currently. Perhaps make exclusive skills unavailable to be chosen as "character skills".

The end result I think you're looking for is what I'm looking for from D&D:
Classes OTHER than the Bard and Rogue being able to be the best at some skill. I firmly believe that roleplaying is funnest when each character is the best at something - along these lines, you might want to make sure that magic doesn't dominate this skills-change.
In 3.5, they did pretty good in ratcheting back magic from making a mockery of the skills system (+30 to Jump, anyone?)
But if it's 3E, than watch the Jump spells and the like, and watch the magic items that pump up a character's skills way above what any dedicated skills-specialist could ever hope to accomplish in their lives.

 

[TroyXavier]

While I haven't eliminated class skills I added listen and spot to everyone, and gave fighters and sorcerors a few additional skills. No problems in my game.

 

[Agback]

G'day

I have experimented with abolishing the distinction between cross-class skills and calass skills. The balance worked fine. The skill-based classes get plenty of opportunity to shine through having extra skill points. And now low-INT fighters can learn to swim without becoming crocks.

Regards,


Agback

 

[tetsujin28]

Because players will create characters that fit into one or two character classes anyway, so you might as well formalize it.

Piffle. The class system is an antiquated relic.

 

[tetsujin28]

.

I have never liked the class/cross class skills. It locks all the classes into the same mold you get no variety. Say you want a fighter who wears leather and use dex with weapon finesse why can't she take tumble as a class skill it fits the concept. And don't say use cross class skills with the two for one and the fact that fighters only get 2 skill points it does not work unless you have a high intelligence.

There are already suggestions on how to do just this on PH110 (3.5).

 

[Krieg]

Use Professions/Starting Occupations like CoC/D20 Modern.

Or...

Introduce a Feat that let's a character treat a number of skills as class skills.

 

[Jeph]

Use Professions/Starting Occupations like CoC/D20 Modern.

Or...

Introduce a Feat that let's a character treat a number of skills as class skills.

There already are a few of those. One, Cosmoplitan, gives you a bonus class skill and a +2 bonus on checks with that skill. The other, whose name I can not remember for the life of me, gives you two bonus class skills.

 

[Olive]

The beauty of all this is that there is a simple feat which allows you to solve this problem. Cosmopolitan from the FRCS allows you to make any cross-class skill a class skill. Multi classing, which is a real strength of the 3.0/3.5 system also helps enourmously.

Lets take a simple example of a Big Bad Evil Guy. The tyrant wizard who rules a country.

I have trouble imagining such a person not being good at skills such as Intimidate and Diplomacy. They should probably also have some skill with Ride, since that would be a common mode of transport for nobility.

All of those are cross-class skills for a wizard or sorcerer.

Now the first answer is 'he's an NPC, let him' but that's not very useful. However everyone CAN ride, and most people who ride a horse to get around would not be skilled riders in the sense that the ride skill makes you. Just because I've driven a car a lot, doesn't mean I can dismount without harm from a moving one. Same goes for horses.

Use two of his feats to get cosmo in Intimidate and Dimplomacy. Or cross class him with expert or rogue or aristocrat at first level and give him lots of ranks in those skills early and there's no more problem.

PCs shouldn't be all things all the time, just because a player wants him to be.

 

[Corinth]

Piffle. The class system is an antiquated relic.

Then how did D&D stay on top since its inception?