D&D 5E Shove attack OP?

[Yunru]

By default, nobody has a bonus action.

By default, anybody can pick up a second weapon and have a bonus action.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

By default, anybody can pick up a second weapon and have a bonus action.

This is true. Everyone has the option of picking up a second weapon, which will grant them a bonus action. Until they do so, they do not have a bonus action.

If you're using a shield, then you don't have the option of picking up a second weapon, so you can't gain a bonus action that way and thus you are not forgoing that bonus action in order to make your shove attempt. While you have a shield equipped, the bonus action from the feat isn't competing against any other bonus actions, unless you happen to spend resources to gain a bonus action option from somewhere else.

 

[Yunru]

This is true. Everyone has the option of picking up a second weapon, which will grant them a bonus action. Until they do so, they do not have a bonus action.

If you're using a shield, then you don't have the option of picking up a second weapon, so you can't gain a bonus action that way and thus you are not forgoing that bonus action in order to make your shove attempt.

You're right, you don't forgo that bonus action to shove, you forgo it to have a shield.

 

[Xeviat]

Big change suggestion: what if using a shield cost a bonus action? Then the shield bash would be an option with a consequence. This would hurt some spellcasters ...

Universal bonus actions would benefit the game, I think.


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[devincutler]

I ran the Hoard of the Dragon Queen with a Shield Mastery dragonborn paladin and I didn't find it at all onerous. Did he use it a lot? Yeah....but so what? It often didn't work and when it did, it usually let him have advantage on his attacks but not much else, since standing from prone no longer take sup all your move or provokes AoO (like it did in 3.5). There's two issues here. If the player finds it boring...then that's on him. Don't use it all the time or don't take the feat. If the DM finds it a balance problem, then I am stumped as to why to be honest. It only works on one opponent per round, only works, at most, 75% of the time, etc.

 

[schnee]

When you burn a feat on Shield Master, every problem is something to be bashed. You know- to get your money's worth. And all of a sudden, you aren't playing Dungeons & Dragons, but Shields and Shivs.

Anyone else having flashbacks to the Spiked Chain in 3.x? (shivers)

 

[mellored]

I recently have a fighter thats picked up shield master. The shove attack strikes me somewhat OP. Anyone have thoughts on this? You don't need to hit, its just an opposed athletics/strength. Even a low level fighter can easily get +7 Athletics. As 95% of NPCs/creatures have neither a Str save or athletics proficiency, its exceedingly rare for an opponent to make a successful check against a shove attack? It seems to pretty much guarentee the party gets advantage on attacks - which is a huge bonus. I don't have a problem with the shove ability, just in how easy it seems to be able to be employed...

1) it cost a feat, which isn't cheap.
2) ranged characters get disadvantage. Which could make things worse in some parties.

 

[Barolo]

It's not quite so silly if you look in the real world (yes, I know) at judo and jujitsu, forms pretty much entirely about grappling. World expert judoka are not big muscly types.

It is not simply about muscles. I would expect someone who wants to play some sort of grappler to go for one of the fighting classes. Monks, fighters and the sort are where I would expect some rules support for grappling and shoving. Instead, the fantasy-medieval Ziggy Stardust is "the guy" for grappling.

Anyhow, I usually think there is a tendency to underrate the impact of physical prowess. While there are extremely skillful martial artists who are not big muscly, if they were, they wouldn't be hampered by that quality, but instead usually enhanced, as long as the extra muscles don't compromise other qualities, such as speed and flexibility. I think there is a good reason judo and MMA tournaments have weight categories.

 

[WarpedAcorn]

I'm surprised only 1 person has mentioned this so far...being prone grants advantage to melee, but disadvantage to ranged. Knocking an enemy Prone with a Shield Mastery attack could actually be helpful to the enemy in some cases depending on their Initiative. For instance, my party of 3 spellcasters got kind of irked last game when I knocked an enemy Prone right before their turn. In later rounds I just pushed him up against a wall...gaining nothing but a bit of RP taunting.

Shield Mastery already gives a lot, its a really great feat that I don't regret taking at all, but I do agree it would be nice to provide other options. For instance, if it allowed you to make an optional off-hand attack with the Shield then that would be a cool way to choose between extra damage or the utility of shoving an enemy.

 

[FrogReaver]

Generally the optimal tactic in D&D is to focus fire each enemy down 1 at a time. That being the case, giving disadvantage to ranged characters will have the party focusing on 2 enemies instead of 1. That's likely a win for the enemies even if the net damage output of TEAM HERO is higher because of the advantage granted by the shield master feat to the Melee Characters.

So, in a vacuum with just your character and all other melee characters it sounds amazing. In the actual game it is usually nearly as detrimental as it is beneficial (at least in terms of damage). However, a bonus to knock an enemy prone has a few other useful benefits.
1. Lowers the enemies movement. (Helps ranged characters stay way and makes it hard for the enemy to run from you)
2. Gives disadvantage on some OA's. (it's a lot safer to run away from a prone enemy)

Basically it makes you stickier. Also shield master feat gives some nice defensive benefits as well not tied to the extra attack.

That said in the right party it may could be the best feat ever to take but that situation is likely rare...