Silence counterspell?

[Plane Sailing]

Sure, cohorts/minions and other magic items (w/o verbal command words) can be used, but I was just sorta surprised how effective this tactic would be.

I didn't really address Silent Spell b/c it's been my experience that no one ever takes it. Now I see why they do. But even so, burning a feat and a prepared Silent Dispel Magic is pretty wasteful on the whole.

Interesting. Guess what I'm throwing at the party's wizard next session

A great option for wizards who are high enough level to prepare it is Minor Globe of Invulnerability, since no silence spells (2nd level spells) work within its perimeter. As a 5th level slot a silenced MGI would be an excellent choice since even a readied silence spell won't stop it going off, and it will protect you against silence thereafter.

(3e MGI anyway. In 3.5 someone added a stupid line to MGI that it doesn't affect pre-existing spells... but continues to give an example of it nuetralising a pre-existing spell. I think someone just had a bit of a brain-ache at that point (perhaps they were worried that it would take down the casters buffs?), and it certainly makes sense to have MGI still suppress all magic within its radius without any bookkeeping worries about the precise timing of the casting of all spells.)

Cheers

 

[Darklone]

Why do I remember that it was ruled that you could use a wand in a silenced area? Must be getting confused with something else.

AR

No idea, but I think so as well... couldn't you craft a wand that does not need a spoken word?

NOT a Silent Wand.

 

[Michael Morris]

That works just fine.



Well, most of my high-level casters carry a Silent Dispel Magic or two for just that reason.

But the 3rd level cleric might find that the 20th level spellcaster's 16th level barbarian cohort isn't too inconvenienced by the Silence spell. And then the 20th level caster only has to walk twenty feet or so and cast again...

-Hyp.

But at that point the damage has been done, the spell has been countered. They walk 20', start another spell, you do it again. And again.

Silence is broken as written at 2nd level if it is allowed to be a near perfect counterspell. I don't allow it. Art of Magic contains new rules dealing with spell timing in combat which prevents silence (and most all spells for that matter) from being used to interrupt an enemy caster. One of the reasons for this is that counterspelling is a major theme in Art of Magic, which shouldn't be surprising given it's roots. There are many spells in the book whose primary function is to counterspell, and allowing silence to be a near universal counter (in addition to everything else it does) undermines all of them.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But at that point the damage has been done, the spell has been countered. They walk 20', start another spell, you do it again. And again.

Yes, but it's hard to cast Silence when there's an Enlarged greataxe-wielding maniac in your face...

-Hyp.

 

[two]

Personally

I do think the spell (silence) is too good. At least it has to get through SR.

If a player wants to be a jerk about it, it's very simple to cook up a Leadership cohort, cleric is a good option, and have this cohort simply stand there and prepare to cast (ready) a "silence" "every time an enemy spellcasters starts to cast a spell." Every battle. Every encounter. Every time. All the time.

A low level, dedicated anti-spellcaster, which is a pain in the rear.

This will cause the GM fits, because it requires all sorts of ridiculous "anti-silence" tricks, which in themselves usually involve higher level spells than this "silence" cohort is throwing (2nd level).

Basically, a dedicated silence-caster can change the nature of most battles, current and planned.

The GM simply can't do the "one spell caster plus 4 fighters plus 1 cleric = fair encounter" because the spellcaster will be insta-silenced, or at best forced to cast high level spells to escape a silence and then get silenced the next round after escaping, etc.

I can't think of another 2nd level spell that can cause more GM headaches, if it's cast every battle, than SILENCE. That's kinda why I think it's overpowered. Will Save would help a lot, (even if it's an area casting).

Of course it's quite a jerky thing to do (silence-obsessed cohort), but entirely legal, and scales up beautifully. Until level what? 15 or so?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I do think the spell (silence) is too good. At least it has to get through SR.

Only if it's targetted...

-Hyp.

 

[two]

The SRD says:

Only if it's targetted...

-Hyp.

SRD says:

Silence
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is
impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the
area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be
centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can
attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items
that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell
provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.
_________________

I could have SWORN the Player's Handbook 3.5 version of silence says more about SR, like, it has to get through SR even if it's not targeted.

If SR does not apply to the non-targeted version, sheesh.

Can somebody check the 3.5 PH?

 

[shilsen]

I could have SWORN the Player's Handbook 3.5 version of silence says more about SR, like, it has to get through SR even if it's not targeted.

"Now by Apollo, King, thou swearest thy gods in vain."

The PHB 3.5 version is the same as the SRD.

 

[Michael Morris]

Yes, but it's hard to cast Silence when there's an Enlarged greataxe-wielding maniac in your face...

-Hyp.

That's beside the point - it's hard to cast ANY spell in that circumstance. In a spell wielder duel silence is too powerful if you win initiative..

 

[Michael Morris]

I do think the spell (silence) is too good. At least it has to get through SR.

No it doesn't. It can be set to affect an area or an object, making it not subject to spell resistance in those modes.