Silly thought on Monks

[nonsi256]

Define "viable".

A Monk 20 can be pretty effective against CR Appropriate Monsters, especially given an intelligently selected set of magic items. But a [insert Class X / Class Y / Class N / Class O, where X+Y+N+O = 20] can do it better (lets not even mention that a Wizard 9+ can probably outshine that same Monk 20 ).

Monk 20 is "viable" (whatever that means in this context), but Monk 9 / Shiba Protector 1 / Drunk Monk 10 is perhaps more enjoyable. Perhaps not.

"viable", among other things, means that out of combat the character has things to do other than sit in the corner while others solve all the problems.
Also, if a fully optimized & fully prepared level-20 monk doesn't have a prayer of surviving (1-on-1) an encounter your average titan on a bad day, then I guess it's not really viable. Even the Scout is better as a striker - and it has skills & blindsense on its side.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'm not sure I'd count the totemist any more an unarmed combatant than a Sorcerer with a bunch of touch spells.

If by Sorcerer with a bunch of touch spells you mean 24 hour combat buffs... and likely a higher CON and STR score. And multiple attacks per round.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Using a PrC to make a character vision come to life is ok.
The problem is that WITHOUT using PrCs, all melees - and the Monk in particular - are next to useless at mid-high levels. You need PrCs not for creating the character you envision for yourself, but to be viable to begin with.

We've had guys run single class monks in our group and contribute nicely. Were they dishing out damage like the Brb? No, but thë PCs were doing exactly what the players wanted their PCs to do.

I'd say that was plenty "viable."

 

[Dandu]

Ah, so the solution to avoid dissatisfaction is to adjust player expectations to fit the character... much like how elections operate!

 

[Drowbane]

"viable", among other things, means that out of combat the character has things to do other than sit in the corner while others solve all the problems.
Also, if a fully optimized & fully prepared level-20 monk doesn't have a prayer of surviving (1-on-1) an encounter your average titan on a bad day, then I guess it's not really viable. Even the Scout is better as a striker - and it has skills & blindsense on its side.

Well there is some disconnect there. A Titan is CR 20. Theoretically, so is a Monk 20. However a Monster with CR 20 is meant to be a threat for Four level 20 PCs. "Wait, what?"

None of the mundanes is a match for a Titan. Titan is basically a pre-baked CoDzilla with fewer, yet still powerful, options.

As to the Skills... this is why I give all classes a base of 4+int skills. Classes that have 4+ or better are unchanged there. And I remove class skills entirely. Monks can pick up social skills or thief skills or wtf else they want. The Rogue is still the Skill-Monkey King (I've never had a Factotum in a tabletop game, so can't really comment ), but now the other classes are let out of the box a little.

edit: Monk as written, btw, is a horrible class. I do not condone its use... I am a bit of a mechanics snob. Fighter-types are what my Caster PC hires on as help, not something I consider a viable adventurer in their own right.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ah, so the solution to avoid dissatisfaction is to adjust player expectations to fit the character... much like how elections operate!

Not at all. Those players had certain expectations when they came to the class, and the class met them, not the other way around.

 

[Dandu]

Also like elections!

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Not at all. Those players had certain expectations when they came to the class, and the class met them, not the other way around.

If the expectation was to punch things often and do a lot of damage, and they miss often or feel like crying when the Wizard can put on more hurt then their fists, they might be disappointed.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They're experienced D&D players- they know nothing beats a spellcaster for damage output. Or anything else, for that matter.

 

[mercenary200]

There are a few feats in the Eberron Campaign Setting rulebook that make a weapon a monk weapon (allowing it for use in conjunction with flurry of blows)
The three weapons are: Double-Bladed Sword, Longspear, and Longsword
each of them require proficiency, and weapon focus