"Siloing" Class Abilities

[Merlion]

I'm not convinced by this idea...

The consequence could be that every single wizard must be 1/3 blaster, 1/3 protector, 1/3 trickster. It doesn't sound like you have an option, but a restriction, if you cannot choose even to be 100% blaster or 100% trickster.

I have a feeling it will be done in such a way as that one can be a fully effective whatever....blaster or what have you...but still be able to be at least somewhat capable of filling other roles. Or you can be 1/3 each if you so choose.

We dont really have enough info to know how exactly this is going to be occomplished, but what you describe would be the exact oposite of what they say they are trying to achieve.

I have a feeling its probably all in the interplay of the spells and the non-spell magical abilities...and you can most likely choose to align them all the same way if you want.

 

[JoelF]

I just had a thought this monring which I hope isn't true, but may be based on the new spellcasting system. Currently, if you had a special situation come up, you could prepare a large amount of your spell slots for utility spells. An example of this was at 8th level, my wizard prepared phantom steed, and 4 preparations of the mount spell to allow the party to cover a lot more ground quickly. If the 4E wizard only has 20% of their spell power tied to prepared spells, and the rest is tied up with at will and per encounter abilities (which so far seem likely to be combat related only), then this type of preparation won't be possible. Another example would be for underwater exploration, if you can't prepare a large number of water breathing spells, and freedom of movement spells, you're screwed. Same goes for arctic or desert settings with the use of endure elements, etc.

 

[hong]

I just had a thought this monring which I hope isn't true, but may be based on the new spellcasting system. Currently, if you had a special situation come up, you could prepare a large amount of your spell slots for utility spells. An example of this was at 8th level, my wizard prepared phantom steed, and 4 preparations of the mount spell to allow the party to cover a lot more ground quickly. If the 4E wizard only has 20% of their spell power tied to prepared spells, and the rest is tied up with at will and per encounter abilities (which so far seem likely to be combat related only), then this type of preparation won't be possible. Another example would be for underwater exploration, if you can't prepare a large number of water breathing spells, and freedom of movement spells, you're screwed. Same goes for arctic or desert settings with the use of endure elements, etc.

Scrolls.

 

[JoelF]

Scrolls.

True, but expensive. Also, not possible if you're not prepared for unexpected situations. If your horses die in the middle of the wilderness, and you're 5 days out from the nearest town by horseback, you probably don't have 20 scrolls of mount ready. Currently, if you know the spell, you can have it ready the next day (or same day if you're a sorceror.)

 

[hong]

To some extent, I think this (reduction in flexibility of spellcasters) is going to be inevitable. Recall that one of the aims of 4E is to increase the range of the sweet spot. Well, one of the issues with the sweet spot is that D&D at high levels introduces a range of game-changing abilities, which DMs often find a chore to deal with. So my guess is that spellcasters are going to see their ability to do things lots of utility things reduced.

Does this mean that the scope for adventures is going to be narrowed? Not necessarily. At the top end, we're probably still going to have lots of game-changing abilities, so things like underwater adventures or otherplanar journeys will still be around. They might get kicked up a few levels though. (As for endure elements in the arctic, heck, just get a few furs and winter clothing, the old-fashioned way.)

 

[Glyfair]

I just had a thought this monring which I hope isn't true, but may be based on the new spellcasting system. Currently, if you had a special situation come up, you could prepare a large amount of your spell slots for utility spells. An example of this was at 8th level, my wizard prepared phantom steed, and 4 preparations of the mount spell to allow the party to cover a lot more ground quickly. If the 4E wizard only has 20% of their spell power tied to prepared spells, and the rest is tied up with at will and per encounter abilities (which so far seem likely to be combat related only), then this type of preparation won't be possible. Another example would be for underwater exploration, if you can't prepare a large number of water breathing spells, and freedom of movement spells, you're screwed. Same goes for arctic or desert settings with the use of endure elements, etc.

That is a matter for good design and good playtesting. Clearly if you reduce the ability to do this then you'll need water breathing spells and the like that affect more people at once (assuming that a group use of the spell would be important). That doesn't mean that an individual use spell wouldn't exist, but that a group use version exist around where it does now.

Scrolls.

Of course, with 4E taking a different approach to magic items, we don't know if scrolls will be as available as they were in 3E. They have mentioned one of the things they wanted to deemphasize was charged items.

 

[Cadfan]

I'm all for reducing a wizard's access to utility spells. I'm sick of the "lets rest and memorize eight copies of the spell that makes this next encounter trivially easy" schtick.

 

[EvilDwarf]

When 3x came out, I've been sort of "siloing" the wizards I play.

3x Wizards can leave open spell slots that they can fill with 15 minutes of study. So, I would load up on whatever offensive spells I thought might be most effective (you know, the usual: Magic Missile, Fireball, etc.), but leave an open slot. Then if we needed a Knock or Levitate or some utility spell, I could have it ready, if we had 15 minutes for us to duck in someplace and I could fill the slot. This isn't exactly what siloing will be, but it's sort of the same idea. (Plus, I suffered the loss of a spell slot for the combat, but I usually used the extra slots from my ability bonus to leave open.)

Combine this with the Reserve feat idea, and maybe we come close.

The rub with at will or per encounter has always been to limit the spells cast during combat--that's essentially what Reserve feats do. They keep the Wizard from laying down the heavy stuff that would "break" at will or per encounter combat casting to trade off with lesser powers.

Note, too, that a variant of Reserve Feat might explain the Fireball vs. Phantom Steed question, if the Reserve feat were modified/broadened to, say, as long as you keep your most powerful Conjuration spell in reserve, you can cast Conjuration spells of lesser power as needed. As long as your most powerful Evocation spell is held in reserve, you can cast evocations at lower power at will or per encounter.

That also explains the "wizards never run out of cool things to do, but they can run out of Mordenkainen's Sword" statement.

Plus, it sure sounds like Wizards etc. get some Disciplines they can also use at will apart from spells.


Just some thoughts.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think we are missing some critical piece of this. We don't know enough yet about the non-spell magical abilities wizards are being given, nor about this whole business of "per day" and "per encounter" and wether it applies to prepared spells or only to the other abilities.

But it sounds to me as though a Wizard may be able to prepare multiple spells in a slot, or perhaps some spells have become abilities wizards can use in other ways, thus freeing up spell slots.

Or perhaps we'll see things like Phantom Steed being packaged in "grab bags" of thematically-related abilities. So you lock yourself into a themed set of utility spells, which define your areas of specialty, then select your regular Vancian spell loadout each day.

 

[Merlion]

Or perhaps we'll see things like Phantom Steed being packaged in "grab bags" of thematically-related abilities. So you lock yourself into a themed set of utility spells, which define your areas of specialty, then select your regular Vancian spell loadout each day.

Definitely a possibility, but if so I hope its changeable. Like daily.

I think something Reserve Feat-like would be good, and seems pretty possible. I've been getting a vibe that some of the other stuff is connected to the Vancian portion in some way.