D&D 5E Silvery Barbs, how would you fix it? Does it need fixing?

[ECMO3]

Which I think would be fair. It's a potent spell. It gives you both a disadvantage to an enemy, and advantage to an ally. It's very potent, so, IMO, the cost should be a bit more than the lowest level of spell slot available in the game.

Not really. It is one advantage and one disadvantage which could both amount to nothing. This is as compared with spells like absorb elements or shield that WILL be useful when you cast them.

Heck Protection from Good and Evil will give disadvantage not just to one enemy but to every Fey/Undead/Elemental/fiend/celestial and aberration that attacks you for the next 100 rounds, while also giving you immunty to fear and charm.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think "how to stop people believing ranting idiots on the internet?" Is a more pertinent question.

Silvery Barbs is a slightly weaker version of Shield. Easy enough to demonstrate: create a gishy character with both. Nine times out of ten you will be better off casting Shield.

A couple of points:

• A reroll is NOT the same as +5.
• Most monsters in 5e have multiattack, so defending against only one attack isn't going to save your squishy butt.
• It's easy for PCs to get advantage in 5e. Finding someone who doesn't already have it might be a challenge.
• The main advantage of Silvery Barbs is it protects (95% of the time) against a critical hit, wheras Shield doesn't.

Personally, I would limit the spell to Stryxhaven students and graduates only, but that would be to preserve the flavour. Power-wise, I have no concerns whatsoever.

 

[Stoutstien]

It is added on The Bard spell list as well who don't gain access to shield or absorb elements so for them it is the de facto defensive first level spell. Not that it's a bad thing just something to note.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Add me to the "I have no immediate concerns" group. It is a powerful spell. it is comparable with Shield, though more versatile.

I would have to see it in play before taking issue with it.

One thing I like, is that it could make an interesting option for Wizard duels. Wiz1 casts spell, Wiz2 counter spells, Wiz1 cast silvery barbs on Wiz2; instead of the dance of counterspells. ( I am one of those DM forces wizards to make a blind counterspell)
It also has a nice 4e flavour to it, pity that it is a spell. Would have better a as class or sub class feature. It is about time that some more reaction mechanics were given to classes.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It is added on The Bard spell list as well who don't gain access to shield or absorb elements so for them it is the de facto defensive first level spell. Not that it's a bad thing just something to note.

Sure, it's a good spell, and making gish bards a better option might be a reason to allow a non-Stryxhaven graduate bard to pick it, but it's far from overpowered.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Lets not forget: shield protects you for the rest of the turn.

 

[NotAYakk]

Agreed. It's a super-useful utility spell, but ultimately it's still just a probability shift.

I look at it this way; if shield hadn't been in the PHB but introduced in a later book, the cries to disallow or nerf it would be extreme. That doesn't mean shield as it currently exists is broken.

Shield as it exists is broken on a high AC character. Stuff like magic plate + magic shield + shield spell breaks bounded accuracy.

The quickest fix is to make it count as a shield. And you can only gain AC from one shield. That makes it still really good, just not broken.

 

[TwoSix]

Shield as it exists is broken on a high AC character. Stuff like magic plate + magic shield + shield spell breaks bounded accuracy.

The quickest fix is to make it count as a shield. And you can only gain AC from one shield. That makes it still really good, just not broken.

<shrug> The worst thing that happens if shield is too strong is that the PC survives; and that was probably going to happen anyway.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

<shrug> The worst thing that happens if shield is too strong is that the PC survives; and that was probably going to happen anyway.

Quite. The idea that shield is "BROKEN OMG!!!!" is pretty extreme. It negates a single hit (sometimes more, depending on situation), some of the time. Given how damage is delivered in D&D, that isn't likely to "break" anything, outside of a "5 minute workday" party vs solo boss situation anyway (neither of which should be happening ideally and neither of which 5E is balanced for). It's only +4 anyway, so it's not much different applying Disadvantage to the same rolls, mathematically.

It doesn't need a fix. Nor does Silvery Barbs.

 

[ad_hoc]

It is added on The Bard spell list as well who don't gain access to shield or absorb elements so for them it is the de facto defensive first level spell. Not that it's a bad thing just something to note.

It isn't a defensive spell, it can be, but that is a much weaker use.

It's a very powerful offensive spell.