D&D 5E Simple Encumbrance system (to make Strength matter)?

[Laurefindel]

As an aside, we play with armor and items "worn" where the weight is well distributed counts only half its weight. The weight of a breastplate when worn is much less encumbering than if you are carrying it around in your hands or slung on your back.

that's... making a lot of sense. From experience, wearing a chainmail is indeed easier than wearing a backpack with the said chainmail in it. I'm sure that wearing the full plate is easier than going full Chewbacca carrying C3P-0 on his back.

 

[DND_Reborn]

that's... making a lot of sense. From experience, wearing a chainmail is indeed easier than wearing a backpack with the said chainmail in it. I'm sure that wearing the full plate is easier than going full Chewbacca carrying C3P-0 on his back.

Thanks. And it is much more realistic even if it requires a bit more bookkeeping. It also explains how a soldier can carry an 80-lbs pack and still move at normal speed. Using the variant STR x5 rules, you would need a STR 16 to avoid the -10 speed penalty. Your common soldier, while in good shape, would most likely have a STR 12 to 14 IME.

 

[Charlaquin]

Personally, I use a sort of slot system for equipped items (anything kept on your person rather than stored in a container). You can carry one one-handed weapon or two light weapons on each hip and one two-handed weapon or two one-handed weapons on your back, and you can also carry up to one weapon in each hand, though obviously that leaves you short a free hand. A shield likewise takes up a free hand when equipped. You can also equip one belt pouch, a water skin, and a set of armor.

Where weight comes into play is with items stored in containers. I observe the container weight limits in the PHB, so a backpack for example can hold up to 30 pounds of gear (rations only weight 1 pound each instead of 2), and you can strap up to one additional item to each side, which could be more weapons if you want, but the smart play is usually to strap heavier traveling essentials like your bedroll to the sides.

I find this to be a nice, manageable system for inventory management, but it doesn’t making strength matter. Personally, I haven’t liked the results when I’ve tried using encumbrance for this purpose. It punishes dumping strength rather than rewarding boosting it, which I’m not the biggest fan of. But in my evaluation, the problem of strength not being useful seems to stem from the fact that Dexterity gives characters both an offensive and defensive boost, while strength only really gives an offensive boost. The exception is with heavy-armor wearers, whom I see tend to opt for strength over Dex. So, my solution is to add light and medium armors with strength requirements. I haven’t tested this yet, but I plan to in my next campaign.

 

[DND_Reborn]

{snip}

Personally, I haven’t liked the results when I’ve tried using encumbrance for this purpose. It punishes dumping strength rather than rewarding boosting it, which I’m not the biggest fan of.

{snip}

Well, people who aren't strong at all, like a STR 8, should IMO be punished via encumbrance. And, stronger characters are rewarded... they can carry more. For most of my characters, with a good supply of "adventuring gear", a STR 10 is an absolute minimum and usually a 12 is desirable. This holds true even for my spell casters. I had ONE female elf character with a STR 8 who was a wizard/rogue type. In fact, over the past year at our table I don't think any other character ever had below a STR 10.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, people who aren't strong at all, like a STR 8, should IMO be punished via encumbrance.

From a realism perspective maybe, but from a gameplay perspective? I don’t think telling players that if they don’t put 10-12 in strength they won’t be able to carry the essentials without suffering a speed penalty leads to a good gameplay experience. That’s just my opinion though, if the encumbrance rules work for you, more power to you.

And, stronger characters are rewarded... they can carry more. For most of my characters, with a good supply of "adventuring gear",

That’s only a reward in the sense that not getting punished is a reward. It’s still a stick, and I would prefer to encourage players to boost strength with a carrot.

a STR 10 is an absolute minimum and usually a 12 is desirable. This holds true even for my spell casters. I had ONE female elf character with a STR 8 who was a wizard/rogue type. In fact, over the past year at our table I don't think any other character ever had below a STR 10.

That seems limiting to me. The scrawny caster or the waiflike rogue are classic character tropes that players are going to want to play. I would rather reward the player who makes a wizard with an average-to-strong build than punish the player who makes a scrawny wizard. Again, though, that’s just me. Nothing wrong with using encumbrance to penalize low-strength characters if that works for you.

 

[Laurefindel]

From a realism perspective maybe, but from a gameplay perspective? I don’t think telling players that if they don’t put 10-12 in strength they won’t be able to carry the essentials without suffering a speed penalty leads to a good gameplay experience.

While I partially agree, even from a gameplay experience, putting a 8 in a stat is voluntarily choosing a weakness, and a player should expect some kind of consequences from that.

The "problem" with D&D (if it really is one) is that although 10-11 is given as baseline average, it is low compared to anything a PC is good at. Abilities swing between 8 and 20, so the comparative median is more like 14-15. Even a 10-11 is perceived as "low" in that context, and when things are linear, that 8 doesn't feel at lot worse than 10.

 

[tetrasodium]

Well, people who aren't strong at all, like a STR 8, should IMO be punished via encumbrance. And, stronger characters are rewarded... they can carry more. For most of my characters, with a good supply of "adventuring gear", a STR 10 is an absolute minimum and usually a 12 is desirable. This holds true even for my spell casters. I had ONE female elf character with a STR 8 who was a wizard/rogue type. In fact, over the past year at our table I don't think any other character ever had below a STR 10.

While I agree, part of the problem comes from a bix of both how the default encumbrance system works & how things are weighted. You can hold 5x & 10x your strength before being encumbered & heavily encumbered. a 15 strength character wearing plate mail has only ten pounds to play with. Meanwhile an average 10 strength farmer is encumbered with little more than a backpack & the 8 strength rogue completely ignores it all because his 8 strength gives him 40 pounds of carry capacity & studded plus a dagger & rapier is only 16 pounds. the 8 strength wizard can't wear armor due to proficiency so that 40 pound capaity drops to 36 pounds left after subtracting a 4 pound staff If that 15 strength plate wearer goes to 20 strength they have 35 pounds to play with & again go back to ignoring it because the adventuring gear table is still almost meaningless weights. decisions like "do we want to carry cold weather gear, tents for everyone or extra food & water" have interesting game consequences, but the default encumbrance system sis so friendly that the answer is "yea carry it all" while still penalizing people for simply being average or not hewing to a sterotype

If someone is only average they are hurt by the encumbrance system only matters if you are merely average. It's completely irrelevant to everyone else unless they are doing something unusual like a arcane caster with moderae strength in armor or whatever. There is a reason why a lot of the replacement systems treat worn & carried armor different and/or have different weights than the phb ones.

 

[DND_Reborn]

From a realism perspective maybe, but from a gameplay perspective? I don’t think telling players that if they don’t put 10-12 in strength they won’t be able to carry the essentials without suffering a speed penalty leads to a good gameplay experience. That’s just my opinion though, if the encumbrance rules work for you, more power to you.

Well, a STR 10 is sufficient for most characters except battlers in armor. For other characters, you just have to be reasonable about what a person can expect to carry for hours at a time. I remember carrying around a backpack full of books in college (D&D 1E books, that is!) and it weighed about 20-25 lbs. It was a heavy weight and then I would have probably had a STR 12. I suppose it depends on what you consider the essentials...

That’s only a reward in the sense that not getting punished is a reward. It’s still a stick, and I would prefer to encourage players to boost strength with a carrot.

LOL I see it the other way, but that's fine.

That seems limiting to me. The scrawny caster or the waiflike rogue are classic character tropes that players are going to want to play. I would rather reward the player who makes a wizard with an average-to-strong build than punish the player who makes a scrawny wizard. Again, though, that’s just me. Nothing wrong with using encumbrance to penalize low-strength characters if that works for you.

You can still play those classic concepts because those concepts aren't bogged down with tons of gear.

Either way, as you say, whatever works for you at your table is the way to go.

 

[Charlaquin]

While I partially agree, even from a gameplay experience, putting a 8 in a stat is voluntarily choosing a weakness, and a player should expect some kind of consequences from that.

They do. They expect a -1 penalty on all strength checks.

The "problem" with D&D (if it really is one) is that although 10-11 is given as baseline average, it is low compared to anything a PC is good at. Abilities swing between 8 and 20, so the comparative median is more like 14-15, so that even a 10-11 is perceived as "low" and when things are linear, that 8 doesn't feel at lot worse than 10.

I’d call that a feature rather than a bug.

 

[DND_Reborn]

{snip}

If someone is only average they are hurt by the encumbrance system only matters if you are merely average. It's completely irrelevant to everyone else unless they are doing something unusual like a arcane caster with moderae strength in armor or whatever. There is a reason why a lot of the replacement systems treat worn & carried armor different and/or have different weights than the phb ones.

That's why I said we play armor and other "worn" items that balance their weight only count half.