smuckenfart
Villager
This is exactly a debate I had with my group, using 3.5e only with Polymorph Any Object to create a real simulacrum of yourself.
A simulacrum spell does create a copy that is half the power, but it does not in fact make reference to having only half memories.
Such a character might not normally be cool with being a "backseat" participant, but smart enough to understand its part in this play.
The polymorph any object spell functions like polymorph, and polymorph functions like alter self, with some differences that we'll get into.
To get to the next step, let's trace back the polymorph any object spell to its foundation highlighting the main points:
Polymorph functions like alter self, with the following differences:
Since you'll be polymorphing the simulacrum into yourself, the attributes remain the same, and you have no extraordinary special attacks or qualities to adopt, so that changes nothing.
Polymorph Any Object: like polymorph, except with the following differences:
Since the simulacrum will be polymorphed into Prime, it will be identical to Prime in every way. This polymorphed sim would retain its own respective HD acquired at creation since neither of the polymorph spells nor alter self adjust the HD/skills/alignment etc, but the subject does assumes the new stats of its new form. Yours as they are at your current level.
A simulacrum is partially real, and partially real doesn't mean it both isn't real and it is real. 50% of it is 100% real. Like a partial lie. The truth in that statement is 100% real, but the lie part isn't. A simulacrum can eat, breathe, love, starve, age, drown, piss, it bleeds if you cut it, and it can die of natural causes just like any animal. It's real enough to be be partially real, so I would say that the original state is not radically different. It is close enough in likeness to be classified as an animal, a mammal. It's the same size category, and of the same intelligence.
So, the SIM can't gain levels because it's a sim, but a Sim polymorphed into you, literally becomes you, with its own mind. It becomes 100% real, no longer 50% real. It can be healed as normal, and gain xp as normal.
When you polymorph into a dragon, and gain some xp, you do not lose that xp when your polymorph is dispelled. You retain all those memories and experiences. A sim that was dispelled would also be reverted to the original simulacrum form, yet it would keep the experiences. You could polymorph the sim again, it would become real, and keep gaining xp. Like a cohort, but with an identical mindset as Prime.
What do you think?
I anticipate the main contention is going to be that it's not real enough to be considered an animal or a mammal.
I urge you to really think about it though. The part that is real, is 100% real. That real part is 100% animal, 100% mammal, and that is not such a radical change.
What's interesting to think about too, the personality of your real sim would be the same as the original sim, which would be under your absolute control at all times. Eventually the realization would drive home that it does in fact have free will, being released from the constraints of a simulacrum. It's not so far fetched to imagine that after a time, the Real Sim might have fantasies about breaking free to live a real life of its own.
So, before creating the sim, your character could run some thought experiments regarding the result of the sim deciding to go off on her own:
1. The Real Sim could easily be dispelled, submitting to the absolute control of your character once again.
2. There can be only one sim in existence. Prime, without her Real Sim companion would hardly let the loss slide, if the real sim escaped, she would create a new sim. That means that if the old sim was ever dispelled, it faces the threat of instant extinction.
3. Unless the character is of evil alignment, trying to take out the real character is tantamount to murder. The real sim still understands that she's a polymorphed sim, the reality of her existence will never escape her. So unless the real sim undergoes an alignment change, I doubt it would attack Prime.
4. If it did have an alignment change, the Real Sim could be outfitted with a fitted necklace with several Contingency spells imbued onto it, an easy feat for a wiz/sorcerer high enough to create a sim.
The contingencies would be as follows:
1. any attempt to purposely harm your character by the real sim, directly or indirectly, casts dispel magic on the sim.
2. if the necklace is removed from the real sim, cast dispel magic on the sim.
3. casting dispel magic on the necklace casts dispel magic as a counterspell.
4. If the counterspell is triggered, cast dispel magic on the real sim.
5. If any of these contingencies are triggered, cast "sending" to Prime with the message "The Sim is compromised."
The dispelled sim would revert to the original form, under Prime's absolute control, and Prime could ask the sim, Why was the necklace triggered? The sim would answer.
Having thought about all that prior to creating the sim, your sim would know them as well, nipping that in the bud before it ever happens.
A simulacrum spell does create a copy that is half the power, but it does not in fact make reference to having only half memories.
The simulacrum would have all the memories up to and including being created, so it would be aware that it is a simulacrum and be in complete alignment with the you, the original character, let's call it Prime, with the identical motivations and thought processes until adequate time and experiences allow for a divergence, though only some profound divergence would subvert a person's core identity/beliefs/thought processes.
Such a character might not normally be cool with being a "backseat" participant, but smart enough to understand its part in this play.
This is also a part of the simulacrum's personality. Keep that in mind as we dive into the effects of polymorph.
It absolutely is a creature, and it is partially real. It is formed from ice and snow, those are just the ingredients and are not subject to the normal limitations of snow, such as high temperature. The written accounts infer as much as 50% is real.
It cannot be dispelled.
The polymorph any object spell functions like polymorph, and polymorph functions like alter self, with some differences that we'll get into.
To get to the next step, let's trace back the polymorph any object spell to its foundation highlighting the main points:
This is important as the physical qualities of the new form become more real as we progress.
Polymorph functions like alter self, with the following differences:
You're not just assuming the form of another creature, you're changing into another form of living creature. ie. type, and it goes on to list the types permitted, including the same type, including humanoid. That humanoid is Prime. Changing what you were, which is a partially real creature, into a real creature.
Since you'll be polymorphing the simulacrum into yourself, the attributes remain the same, and you have no extraordinary special attacks or qualities to adopt, so that changes nothing.
Polymorph Any Object: like polymorph, except with the following differences:
Now, it says that the spell absolutely changes everything about the target into another form, a person can become a 100% real rock with all its properties, vice versa. It literally becomes that.
Since the simulacrum will be polymorphed into Prime, it will be identical to Prime in every way. This polymorphed sim would retain its own respective HD acquired at creation since neither of the polymorph spells nor alter self adjust the HD/skills/alignment etc, but the subject does assumes the new stats of its new form. Yours as they are at your current level.
A simulacrum is partially real, and partially real doesn't mean it both isn't real and it is real. 50% of it is 100% real. Like a partial lie. The truth in that statement is 100% real, but the lie part isn't. A simulacrum can eat, breathe, love, starve, age, drown, piss, it bleeds if you cut it, and it can die of natural causes just like any animal. It's real enough to be be partially real, so I would say that the original state is not radically different. It is close enough in likeness to be classified as an animal, a mammal. It's the same size category, and of the same intelligence.
In all respects, it's a human animal, only in that it can't gain in levels and it can't be healed with healing spells is it different.
So, the SIM can't gain levels because it's a sim, but a Sim polymorphed into you, literally becomes you, with its own mind. It becomes 100% real, no longer 50% real. It can be healed as normal, and gain xp as normal.
When you polymorph into a dragon, and gain some xp, you do not lose that xp when your polymorph is dispelled. You retain all those memories and experiences. A sim that was dispelled would also be reverted to the original simulacrum form, yet it would keep the experiences. You could polymorph the sim again, it would become real, and keep gaining xp. Like a cohort, but with an identical mindset as Prime.
What do you think?
I anticipate the main contention is going to be that it's not real enough to be considered an animal or a mammal.
I urge you to really think about it though. The part that is real, is 100% real. That real part is 100% animal, 100% mammal, and that is not such a radical change.
What's interesting to think about too, the personality of your real sim would be the same as the original sim, which would be under your absolute control at all times. Eventually the realization would drive home that it does in fact have free will, being released from the constraints of a simulacrum. It's not so far fetched to imagine that after a time, the Real Sim might have fantasies about breaking free to live a real life of its own.
So, before creating the sim, your character could run some thought experiments regarding the result of the sim deciding to go off on her own:
1. The Real Sim could easily be dispelled, submitting to the absolute control of your character once again.
2. There can be only one sim in existence. Prime, without her Real Sim companion would hardly let the loss slide, if the real sim escaped, she would create a new sim. That means that if the old sim was ever dispelled, it faces the threat of instant extinction.
3. Unless the character is of evil alignment, trying to take out the real character is tantamount to murder. The real sim still understands that she's a polymorphed sim, the reality of her existence will never escape her. So unless the real sim undergoes an alignment change, I doubt it would attack Prime.
4. If it did have an alignment change, the Real Sim could be outfitted with a fitted necklace with several Contingency spells imbued onto it, an easy feat for a wiz/sorcerer high enough to create a sim.
The contingencies would be as follows:
1. any attempt to purposely harm your character by the real sim, directly or indirectly, casts dispel magic on the sim.
2. if the necklace is removed from the real sim, cast dispel magic on the sim.
3. casting dispel magic on the necklace casts dispel magic as a counterspell.
4. If the counterspell is triggered, cast dispel magic on the real sim.
5. If any of these contingencies are triggered, cast "sending" to Prime with the message "The Sim is compromised."
The dispelled sim would revert to the original form, under Prime's absolute control, and Prime could ask the sim, Why was the necklace triggered? The sim would answer.
Having thought about all that prior to creating the sim, your sim would know them as well, nipping that in the bud before it ever happens.
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