Skill Points

[Klaus]

Someone mentioned the well-travelled fighter who knows a few languages and knows the nobles of the land. You can already do this, by simply picking the Open Minded feat and spending 4 skill points to buy a rank in Speak Language and Knowledge (nobility & royalty). The fighter gets enough feats that he can throw a few of these around.

I love skills and I love feats, and I'd like to see characters get more of each in the next incarnation of the game.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

IMHO skill points are enough for every class, except for the Ranger which has too many in 3.5.

There is no reason why every Fighter should be a top alpinist and long-jump recordman, but many players seem to have difficulties in understanding that nearly all skills don't need to be maximised: they want their character to cover all his "default" skills, but pretend to also cover something else "otherwise I can't make an interesting character"...

Unless the party is small, and it has problems because overall it covers really few skills (as a whole), there is usually no need to boost skill points. I did that once, but I'm never going to do it again in a 4+ character party.

You are the first person i have encountered who feels some classes actually have too many skill points. What else is the fighter supposed to spend skill points on? They only have 7 class skills to begin with.

I do the +2 skill points across the board but I also think i am going to give every class the opportunity to choose a new class skill every 'X' number of levels. Not sure what 'X' will be yet.

Skills are fun. Skill checks are fun. More skills = more fun.

 

[Mercule]

Mercule: Actually, I just give +2 per level, including 1st, in the house-ruled D&D campaign. I wonder if your version might be more logical, though. Hm. It's obviously more consistent with the D&D skill mechanics.

Maybe it's my computer programmer blood showing through, but one of my favorite bits about 3E is the basic mathematic formulas for things like BAB, saves, skill points, etc. I guess it never really occurred to me that you weren't saying the same thing as me.

But, hey, if it's working for you, that's great.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I love skills and I love feats, and I'd like to see characters get more of each in the next incarnation of the game.

So do I, and so would I! As far as game mechanics go, they're the two (in 3e) that convinced me that yeh, D&D was worth getting back into, after a lengthy break from other incarnations.

But for now, as well as giving +2 skp per level, I have every being gain a feat at each odd level, rather than at the usual progression (in the D&D + house-rules version of things). Woo-hoo! Fighters with a feat every level!

Again, I find this works very well, for my purposes, for the house-ruled D&D campaign.

And, on a side note, I'd be really interested to see a d20 system that runs entirely on skills and feats. OK, that's probably quite enough hijacking of the poor thread. Sorry.

 

[Li Shenron]

You are the first person i have encountered who feels some classes actually have too many skill points.

Yes, I am outnumbered.

Only the 3.5 Ranger however. It's got more base skill points than needed to max out all his typical skills, which is unfair to the other classes.

 

[Crothian]

Yes, I am outnumbered.

Only the 3.5 Ranger however. It's got more base skill points than needed to max out all his typical skills, which is unfair to the other classes.

Perhaps it just has more typical skills then you think. THey do have lots of class skills.

 

[Henry]

Yes, I am outnumbered.

Only the 3.5 Ranger however. It's got more base skill points than needed to max out all his typical skills, which is unfair to the other classes.

Spot, Listen, Survival, Hide, Move Silently, and Knowledge (Dungeoneering) - you may be right. You could say Know(Nature)'s in that group, but that's still quite a bit.

 

[TracerBullet42]

I give every character 8 extra skill points at creation to spend specifically on Knowledge, Craft or Profession skills.

I like this idea...I find that most people never throw any ranks into these skills. It seems that every character ought to have some profession skill ranks...surely they've done something other than adventuring at some point.

An idea I have to encourage ranks in the profession skill is to allow 5 ranks in profession: (whatever) to grant a +2 synergy bonus to three other skills (determind by the DM) that would relate to the chosen profession. Players would probably happily go for this, as it would net them a precious extra +1, but perhaps not exactly where they want it.

I find that having a background profession helps round out a character nicely, and this simple mechanic would encourage players to further develop their character.

 

[Ranger REG]

I am wondering why skill points are such a rare commodity in DnD? Is there a particular reason that there are classes limited to 2 skill points a level? I have noticed in other D20 system games that they were more plentiful and that seemed much more natural to me, so I wanted to know everyone else's feelings on the matter. Should they be more plentiful, less?

Hey, at least it's not like 2e. You get one NWP slot (equivalent of a skill point) every 3 or 4 levels.

For some, usually Int-based classes like the Wizard, it's common sense to put your highest rolled score and gain class benefits as well as additional skill points based on Intelligence. So, you end up with as much skill points as the rest of the other classes, more or less.

 

[Li Shenron]

Perhaps it just has more typical skills then you think. THey do have lots of class skills.

Spot, Listen, Survival, Hide, Move Silently, and Knowledge (Dungeoneering) - you may be right. You could say Know(Nature)'s in that group, but that's still quite a bit.

Well, I was thinking that Survival, Hide, Move Silently are the 100% typical Ranger skills. Knowledge (Nature) would be the next, but not necessarily maxed out. Listen & Spot are IMO the kind of skills which shouldn't be considered "necessary" by anyone, especially not necessary to be maxed out, but if there is one only class which could claim to be the L&S expert it is definitely the Ranger IMO.

However, try to take a look at the Rogue class skill list, for example. Even with 8 skill points per level, a Rogue cannot maximize all the roguish skills: Search, Disable Device, Open Lock, Sleigh of Hand, Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Tumble... already 8. What about then Gather Information, Appraise, Knowledge(Local), Escape Artist and Use Magic Device?

My point is that just like a Rogue cannot always be able to do everything he might be able to, why should the Ranger? If they want to be able to do more, either they need to me more intelligent than average, or choose to do everything at less than top (i.e. not maxed out). I haven't played 3.5 long enough to see more than 2-3 rangers, but none of them had an Int bonus, and the reason IMO is that the player has little motivations to "invest" in Int.