Skilled warrior

[Noldo]

Quite often I manage to get character ideas that turn out not to be the easiest to implement mechanically.

It happened once again. The character was originally created for True20, but the combat mechanics lead our group to change into Pathfinder (hit points just were more suitable for the feel that we tried to capture), but now I have to try to build my character mechanically with tools available in Pathfinder.

Storywise, the character was son of captured duke. Formally he was kept inprisoned in the palace, but practically he was turn into court jester. In addition being almost same age as the prince, he would be the one with whom prince would practice swordfighting to (character would naturally be allowed to fight back, but never hurt the prince).

So the attributes I was looking for were:
- some social ability (fast talking etc. to keep character from falling the grace of too many people an lose his quite favourable position in th court)
- swordplay and tricks (primarily ability to stay alive and win battles without hurting the opponent)

How could I turn this idea into interesting-to-play character (mechanically)? At this point I will have three levels to play with.

My initial idea was Fighter / Bard (1/2, continue as bard):
Pros
+ social skills
+ bardic music: facination -> fits wonderfully to idea of charcter trying to stay in favour in order to survive
+ fighter level gives feat for experise/disarm -chain

Cons
- I didn't really plan on being spellcaster (it's almost joke within the group that I always play casters, a deviation from the habit could be nice)
- I have hard time perceive way to incorporate bardi music (Inspire Courage) into play stylewise (and playing bard without using it would feel too much of a handicap)

 

[does not compute]

Hmm, how about simply Fighter and later Duelist? Build around DEX and INT, he could have enough Skill Points for Diplomacy and Bluff. The large amount of Feats should help you flesh him out a bit. For 1st and 3rd level Feats, select some non-combat stuff, with the Fighter Feats, maybe Disarm, or other Combat Maneuvers.
Alternatively, Rogue/Fighter, but that prolongs the time needed to reach Duelist, which may just be your Prestige Class.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Why not Straight Rogue? It has social, fighting ability (3/4th bab), sneak attack, etc.

 

[Nyeshet]

I second both the Duelist (eventually) and the Rogue / Fighter option - or even all rogue. Rogue skill points can easily allow you to fill the role you wish with various social skills; sneak attack can be used for non-lethal damage - thus allowing you to win fights without actually 'harming' the prince, and you could use Rogue talent (lv 2) to get Hypnotism 2/day as a spell-like ability [Hypnotism is basically fascinate + suggestion on 2d4 HD worth of creature(s).].

I would suggest Rog 2 / Ftr 1. Next level could go either way: Fighter for the feat & Bravery, Rogue for the +1 BAB and Sneak Attack +2d6. Fighter would also allow you to move towards Duelist a little faster, if you wish to go that route. Having levels of both Rogue and Fighter would also suggest your situation: mostly social but learning some combat skill due to practices with the prince.

However, the idea of going pure rogue (or mostly rogue with Ftr 2 / Rog X, either way duelist starts at level 9) also works well. BAB is not quite as high, but then your character has not exactly been raised as a soldier or warrior type - more the rapscallion fool / social type. Also, rogue talents can cover a broad range - including fighter feats if you need them. Taking 2 levels of fighter will aid in feat gain after having used your first rogue talent for Hypnotism, for example.

 

[Aus_Snow]

So, your original character was (or was to be) a Warrior/Expert, right? Mainly Expert, at that?

Well, if you have a look at the Expert-only feat list (in True20) there are such things as Sneak Attack, Evasion, etc. . . (er, as far as I can remember!) So Rogue really is the closest thing, in the core book at least.

If you didn't even want Sneak Attack though (for example) you could try the Fighter-feat Rogue variant, from Unearthed Arcana, at d20srd.org, thanks to the Open Gaming License.

The other thing that might be worth mentioning is the unofficial Hit Points option (well, one of them) for True20. . . but either way, I'm sure you can arrange something close to the concept you have in mind. True20 makes that easier, true, but Pathfinder is also pretty neat, in different ways.

I hope it works out for ya, whatever you decide.

 

[pawsplay]

Why not Fighter 1/Rogue 1, then advance as a Fighter? A single level of Rogue will give you a wide spread of class skills, a couple of extra skill points, and 1d6 of sneak attack. Make it two levels if you want evasion. After that, a human fighter with a decent Int has plenty of skill points to keep Bluff maxed and Diplomacy and other skills fairly high.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Multiclassing Bard will probably not end very satisfying, I am afraid. You lose to much of the Bardic spellcasting and special abilities, and the bard itself doesn't add all that much to being a decent fighter.

Rogue or Rogue/Fighter certainly sounds the best. If you don't want to kill people, a Sap is a good choice. (Unless the rules on sneak attack and nonlethal damage have changed between 3.5 and Pathfinder), or maybe Improved Unarmed. (You swing your sword until you see an opening, then use an unarmed strike to deal nonlethal damage with sneak attack.)

What mix you will focus on depends on your preferences and maybe what happens in-game. Maybe you need a better guy at the front-lines, maybe you need someone with really good social skills.

If you start at 3rd level:
Your first level should be Rogue, of course, then you can see whether it's more important to get 5 ranks in your most important skills (second level of Rogue) or to get one extra bonus feat (2 levels of Fighter).

Just one warning: Make it clear to yourself and everyone else whether you being a Rogue also means you will be the "trap"-guy or not. For your character concept, you will probably need the skill points for social skills, not for the trap-related skills.

 

[Thanael]

Storywise, the character was son of captured duke. Formally he was kept inprisoned in the palace, but practically he was turn into court jester. In addition being almost same age as the prince, he would be the one with whom prince would practice swordfighting to (character would naturally be allowed to fight back, but never hurt the prince).

So the attributes I was looking for were:
- some social ability (fast talking etc. to keep character from falling the grace of too many people an lose his quite favourable position in th court)
- swordplay and tricks (primarily ability to stay alive and win battles without hurting the opponent)

For 3.5 I'd say "some social ability + swordplay & tricks" (read swashbuckling) = Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior. You have 4 skill points per level, full BAB, Weapon Finesse, Bluff, Diplomacy & Sense Motive as class skills. Feats to look for: combat expertise, improved disarm. He's lacking Knowledge nobility but for a prisoner that should be ok. Or you could add in a level of Aristocrat to represent those parts. Swashbuckler has been converted to PF in Adamant Entertainment's Tome of Secrets. Or you could search for a fan conversion of the swashbuckler. (Here's are a few conversions on paizo and here is one on ENWorld) Make sure to go for the duelist PrC later.

As for not hurting anyone check out the nonlethal damage rules:

Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage
You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.

Also fighting defensively (standard action or full round action, stacks with combat expertise!) and total defense (standard action). You'll find the PF rules for those here.

In fact i have just made a similar noble fencer PC an Ari1/Swashbuckler1 that i envisioned to develop into an Ari2/Swashbuckler5/Duelist1+ later. Here's his sheet. Next level would have been Duelist of course. He is already quite a skilled courtier at CL2, if not yet a good fencer. But later his extraordinary INT would have made him a great fencer.

Note that for PF the skill requirements of the Duelist class changed. You need 2r in acrobatics and perform.(which would equate 5 ranks each in 3.5) I haven't seen the Swasbuckler from Tome of Secrets, so I can't say if you would need to multiclass at all. But 1 level of Ari would certainly fit your backstory. So i would go for Ari1/Swashbuckler2. Feats: Dodge, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm. Make sure to get Mobility until level 6 to qualify for duelist.

 

[Thanael]

If you start at 3rd level:
Your first level should be Rogue, of course, then you can see whether it's more important to get 5 ranks in your most important skills (second level of Rogue) or to get one extra bonus feat (2 levels of Fighter).

PF has done away with that particular quirk/problem of 3E. You get 1xskill points at 1st level, max rank equals your level (and not +3). So which class you start with is unimportant for skills. A Rog1/Ftr1 has the same skills as a Ftr1/Rog1.

 

[Salthorae]

PF has done away with that particular quirk/problem of 3E. You get 1xskill points at 1st level, max rank equals your level (and not +3). So which class you start with is unimportant for skills. A Rog1/Ftr1 has the same skills as a Ftr1/Rog1.

And SO much better for it too!

On topic: I think the best options to start with would be Rogue 2/Fighter 1 as your character sounds more jester, tumble, fight when he has to do so.

The other great thing about skills in Pathfinder is there is no such thing as Cross-class skills. So if you want to pick up Knowledge (Nobility), your Rogue, or your fighter levels could take Knowledge (Nobility) at full ranks... you just don't get the +3 bonus from it being a class skill.