Skirmish and full attack

[Caliban]

so you wouldnt allow the party fighter to bullrush me into the fray for a skirmish full attack?

Nope. By the same token, I wouldn't cause a Dwarven Defender to break his stance if someone else moves him, only if he moves under his own power (which means that DD'ing a Dwarven Defender who is in his stance can be a pretty good use of the spell).

 

[fafhrd]

As a DM I certainly would require you to have actually moved under your own power to qualify (especially since the errata that stops it from working while mounted).

How about falling? Would you count that as movement under one's own power?

 

[Caliban]

How about falling? Would you count that as movement under one's own power?

I happen to really dislike the debating tactic of asking ever more absurd "what if" questions, and I've about reached my limit.

What is your purpose behind asking me this?

 

[fafhrd]

I happen to really dislike the debating tactic of asking ever more absurd "what if" questions, and I've about reached my limit.

What is your purpose behind asking me this?

I'm not trying to be coy. I've long been curious about how falling relates to movement in the game, and I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of those like yourself who've spent a lot more time thinking about such things.

 

[Caliban]

I'm not trying to be coy. I've long been curious about how falling relates to movement in the game, and I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of those like yourself who've spent a lot more time thinking about such things.

Sorry, sometimes I'm a little touchy.

I personally don't count falling as coming out of your movement allowance. If you 5' step off a cliff and land next to someone (without falling flat on your face) you can take a full attack. You will usually provoke an AoO though, as this usually involves moving through that persons threatened area (the AoO rules don't care if you are being moved by gravity, your own legs, or somone bull rushing you - it provokes).

It doesn't count towards activating Skirmish, because you only used a 5' step from your own movement allowance, and I do think the rules for Skirmishing "care" about that, even if it isn't explicitly spelled out.

 

[fafhrd]

Sorry, sometimes I'm a little touchy.

Hey, no problem. I can understand how an endless litany of questions of dubious intent could be frustrating.

I personally don't count falling as coming out of your movement allowance. If you 5' step off a cliff and land next to someone (without falling flat on your face) you can take a full attack. You will usually provoke an AoO though, as this usually involves moving through that persons threatened area (the AoO rules don't care if you are being moved by gravity, your own legs, or somone bull rushing you - it provokes).

It doesn't count towards activating Skirmish, because you only used a 5' step from your own movement allowance, and I do think the rules for Skirmishing "care" about that, even if it isn't explicitly spelled out.

That makes a good bit of sense. Thanks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sure, you can make those AoOs. It says "in a round." A round is a unit of time. However, it begins and ends on the scout's turn.

Well, that's not what you said a moment ago! - you said it was only 'during the round' while the scout was acting...

The definition above for a round notes that you make all your actions when your turn comes up. Note that once a scout's turn comes up, they haven't moved in the round. Therefore, no skirmish until they move again.

Right. So, the sequence we proposed is this:

1. Scout's turn comes up in the initiative order. The Scout's 'round' has begun, and his position right now is the initial position we will measure ten feet from.
2. The Marshall's readied action triggers. The Scout gets to take an extra move action. This may or may not be during the Scout's turn, depending on how one reads readied actions, but either way, it is happening during the same round as the Scout's turn, and that's what matters for Skirmish.
3. The Scout's turn continues. He has moved ten feet from where he was at the start of his turn, and he has a full round action remaining, so he makes a full attack with Skirmish damage.

It doesn't count towards activating Skirmish, because you only used a 5' step from your own movement allowance, and I do think the rules for Skirmishing "care" about that, even if it isn't explicitly spelled out.

Before the errata, I think I would have agreed completely.

But the errata place the importance on the distance you reach from your starting point that the distance you actually travel. You can travel thirty feet... but if it's in a small circle that never goes more than 5 feet from your initial position, Skirmish doesn't activate.

Someone brought up, before, a Swift (or Immediate) action 10-foot-teleport. I don't think this, by itself, would be enough - you're ten feet from your starting position, but you haven't actually moved at all.

However, if you teleported 10 feet and then took a 5 foot step, to me, that's enough to trigger Skirmish - you've moved, and you're over ten feet from your position at the start of the round. It looks to me like you've covered the conditions of post-errata Skirmish.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Before the errata, I think I would have agreed completely.

But the errata place the importance on the distance you reach from your starting point that the distance you actually travel. You can travel thirty feet... but if it's in a small circle that never goes more than 5 feet from your initial position, Skirmish doesn't activate.

Someone brought up, before, a Swift (or Immediate) action 10-foot-teleport. I don't think this, by itself, would be enough - you're ten feet from your starting position, but you haven't actually moved at all.

However, if you teleported 10 feet and then took a 5 foot step, to me, that's enough to trigger Skirmish - you've moved, and you're over ten feet from your position at the start of the round. It looks to me like you've covered the conditions of post-errata Skirmish.

-Hyp.

*shrug* I disagree with your reading of "at least 10 feet from your starting position". I think that line is there to stop a scout from doing the 5' forward, 5' back shuffle to trigger their skirmish damage in tight spaces.

However, I wouldn't have a problem with the scout going 5' forward, then 5' to the left and attacking with Skirmish.

 

[JiCi]

Huh, didn't a White Raven maneuver (ToB) grant you the ability to make an additional 5 ft adjustment, even after your initial 5 ft move ?

 

[moritheil]

I happen to really dislike the debating tactic of asking ever more absurd "what if" questions, and I've about reached my limit.

What is your purpose behind asking me this?

I find it interesting in pretty much every thread Hyp and you have both been in, you have reached your limit with regard to "what about X hypothetical scenario" questions.

What is your purpose in acknowledging them but refusing to play along? How about your portrayal of them as "ever more absurd" when they are in fact attempts to reduce other rules scenarios to more palatable ones? Does that necessarily make them more absurd? It seems to me that that only makes them tricks, but no more or less inherently absurd.

If you 5' step off a cliff and land next to someone (without falling flat on your face) you can take a full attack.

Can't the attack come before splattering, though? Is there something RAW that would prevent that?