Slashing Fury - PHB II

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Is this feat even worth taking?

If you make a standard action to attack, you can gain a second attack. But this first attack is at -5 and the second at -10?

If you make a full attack action, you gain an additional attack at your highest bonus but all other attacks are at -5?

This seems to suck hardcore and would only benefit a PC if the enemy has a low AC. It would totally screw with PA or CE folks.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Might not be bad for a sneaky git rogue who gets the drop on someone. Depends on your fighting style.

 

[Felix]

I don't have the books, but if it allows you to take 2 attacks with one standard action, then it also allows Rogues and Scouts to attack twice on a Spring Attack, where presumably you'd gain Sneak Attack and Skirmish damage on every hit.

One would simply have to manipulate the circumstance bonuses so that you recover enough of the loss to make it worth getting a second Sneak Attack vector.

Flanking, +2 to attack.
Enemy flat-footed, penalty to his AC varies.
High Ground, +1 to attack.

There aren't many circumstances when I'd want to penalize my attacks to gain a new one at -10, but they do exist. It's like Power Attack for classes that get extra-damage dice: to optimize damage you don't always all-power-attack, and similarly you wouldn't always Slashing Fury. But there are times when you would want to gain an extra attack in the hope that you could apply the extra damage dice again.

 

[Machiavelli]

Agreed, Felix.

It still sounds weak to me, without having playtested it... like Power Attack on a -2 for +1 ratio.

 

[Felix]

like Power Attack on a -2 for +1 ratio.

Well, I don't know about that. Certainly it's more situationally selective than Power Attack...

Assume: -1 attack is worth +2 damage.

So what is -5 to your attack worth? 10 damage... which is about 3d6, on average. Given our assumption, a person should generally be indifferent to -5 attack and +3d6 damage; does Slashing Fury produce a +3d6 benefit for your sacrifice of -5?

If the expected damage from your second attack, which will likely not hit, but may hit hard, is 10, then it is worth taking the -5 to attack on your original hit.

Unfortunately, a -10 to attack is going to reduce your to-hit chance by ~50%: this will do unpleasant things to your expected damage. So you'll want to use it when you can manipulate circumstance bonuses, or the AC of the target is so low that you're going to hit regardless, or the AC of the target is so high you'd only hit on a 20 anyway.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Prereqs (working off memory here):

BAB +14
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Melee Weapon Mastery

Rogues and scouts won't qualify without massive crossover. Even then, they wouldn't qualify until close to 20th level. It's really a fighter feat but the penalties seem to outweigh any possible advantage outside of criticals (which still need to be confirmed).

 

[Krullisman]

Is this feat even worth taking?

Oh my, yes...

It's a fighter feat. If you've built your fighter correctly, you can afford to take the hit to attack bonus in exchange for more attacks. I played a fighter to 16th level and made terrific use of this feat.

Example: Assume a typical 14th-level fighter: Approximately +14 BAB, +5 Str, +4 weapon, +2 feats. Total attack bonus +25/+20/+15.

Using slashing flurry, you can attack at +20/+15 as a standard action, or +20/+20/+15/+10 as a full-round. Yeah, the last attack is less likely to hit, but the trade-off was well worth it, IMHO.

It depends on whether your GM goes in for astronomical ACs or astronomical hit points at high levels.

 

[Ferrum]

I actually spent a lot (I mean A LOT) of time considering this for my 18 level feat.

I had already created 4 excel spreadsheets to figure out the best Power Attack amount to use for each individual AC based on my total attack bonus, depending on certain modifiers. I created 4 more to check the effectiveness of adding Slashing Flurry.

My findings:
At attack bonus of 35, attacking an AC of 33 or lower, it is beneficial to use Slashing Flurry
At hasted attack bonus of 36, attacking an AC of 30 or lower, it is beneficial to use Slashing Flurry

Polymorph (Fire Giant)/Fully buffed:
At attack bonus of 41, attacking an AC of 40 or lower, it is beneficial to use Slashing Flurry
At hasted attack bonus of 42, attacking an AC of 40 or lower, it is beneficial to use Slashing Flurry

These numbers do not take into account Criticals, but they do account for automatically hitting on a 20 and missing on a 1. If criticals were factored in, there would likely be a 1-2 AC lean in favor of Slashing Flurry. The weapon used is a Great Axe, and optimal Power Attacks (at 2-to-1 ratio) are factored in.

The only reason I passed on the feat, was the history of my fighter getting off a full attack. Generally, the opponent doesn't live past the second or third swing.

 

[Darklone]

Excuse me... this feat (and it's upgrade) nearly allows a full attack action with a standard action.

Why don't you think it's worth it?

So, in all cases you're using a full attack action, this feat will be worth it.