D&D 5E Sleep is not a save-or-die spell (minor rant)

[Sunseeker]

It's other weak point is you don't know the foes' HP so you don't know whether it is going to be effective at all.

You also don't know your enemy's stats or saves. You're guessing either way.

@OP: if you don't understand why sleep was nerfed from previous editions, we can't help you.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

From the Sleep description:

each creature affected by this spell falls
unconscious until the spell ends, the sleeper takes
damage, or someone uses an action to shake or slap the
sleeper awake.

It's clearly stated here that it takes exactly one action. No debilitating effects afterwards.

 

[Gadget]

I think you're (the OP) missing the point and taking things far to literally. The sleep spell, especially in previous editions of the game, falls into the category of save-or-suck spells that are basically combat ending "I win" buttons: you either make the save (or in 5e have sufficient HP to not be affected) or you're out of action. Sometimes this category of spells, particularly in previous editions where the name was more applicable, is called "save or die", even when the spell does not actually kill the target. In most cases, the affected target might as well be dead: it is a simple matter to slit the throat of the sleeping enemy, or tie them up and toss them off a cliff, etc.

The fact that in 5e, the 'Save' part is no longer true (it is based on current Hit Points), and the 'Die' part was never technically true does not gist of the concept invalid, just misnamed.

 

[SuperZero]

Yeah, it's strong, but it's more of a high damage spell. It's particularly good against enemies with high AC. Its weak point is melee enemies that have more HP than the adventurers.

Damage spells progress towards the target's defeat. Sleep is all-or-nothing.
It's not really like a damage spell except being based on the same defense--hp.

 

[Sacrosanct]

In our games, even against higher level opponents, sleep is a go to spell, especially against those with high AC or a lot of damage resistance. Whittle them down as best you can, and nail them with a sleep, if you figure it would take at least three or more rounds to keep beating on them to before they die.

fireball + sleep against hobgoblins is a frequent combo lol. Everyone hates their high AC, and their martial extra damage.

 

[I'm A Banana]

In our games, even against higher level opponents, sleep is a go to spell, especially against those with high AC or a lot of damage resistance. Whittle them down as best you can, and nail them with a sleep, if you figure it would take at least three or more rounds to keep beating on them to before they die.

The "it just works" aspect to Sleep makes it a bit exceptional as a disabling spell, actually. My gnome wild mage in a Dragonlance game has often made use of Sleep to knock dragons out of the sky, handily bypassing their Legendary Resistance, and to annoy Draconians what with their Magic Resistance. Most of those critters rely on buff saving throws as a "get out of combat-ending status conditions free" cards, and Sleep gives exactly zero flips about your saving throws. Against armies with magic-resistance, it's better than stuff like Hypnotic Pattern or Confusion.

It can get expensive - if I want to knock a dragon out of the sky, I ain't doin' it round 1, and even when I do it, I'm probably blowing 3 or 4 spell levels on it (and if it gets back up again...*sigh*), just to "be sure." Its best use at high levels is probably still in disabling small groups of low-level enemies. But whenever the party goes up against a big beefy "boss" by round 2 or 3, I'm always like, "What nice saving throws you have, Dorothy!" *Sleep for 9d8*

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Sleep is an awesome spell. Big bad put sleep on the party tank and that alone nearly caused a tpk. Literally, 1 HP left....A LOT can happen in 1 minute (10 rounds!!!).

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Someone asked if such a deep sleep would act as a Short Rest! I was tempted...but said no. As an offensive spell, there are bad dreams.

 

[aramis erak]

The sleep spell that can put you to sleep for longer than the length of an average combat so you are at their mercy. If you have few enough HPs for sleep to affect you, the automatic critical they can get (Unconcious condition, PHB 292) will likely kill you.

Alternately since it takes damage or someone spending an action to slap or shake you awake they can probably carefully tie you up/manacle you, toss you into off a cliff, take away all of your weapons, put you in a noose, or other thing that doesn't jostle or hurt you prior to it going off.

Yes, the spell doesn't kill you itself, but it does completely take you out. Just like petrification can turn you to stone but "you're not dead".

A Judiciously applies sleep can be a VERY powerful spell. (3+(2 * Spell Level))d8's is nothing to sneeze at. Especially since it affects based upon current HP, not maximum.

A 3rd level sleep (11d8) has an average effect of 50HP. Facing 6 knights with 67 HP each?, hit one a couple times, then sleep him with a 3rd level. He's now out of the fight, and the Rogue with the poisoned dagger can go put another 14d6 (1d6 weapon, +3d6 sneak +3d6 poison, all doubled for unconscious foe auto-crit) on him, with an expected 50 points of damage.

I've seen whack-whack-sleep-stab-stab work quite well. (Remember - they're still prone, so still advantage to be hit until their own turn if the first stab doesn't kill them.)

Or those mounted knights, making a pain of themselves by not being in range at the end of their turn? Sleep will drop their mounts, forcing them all to dex save or take a d6 themselves, and allowing you to catch up with them.

And a 9th level sleep? 21d8 is an expected 95 HP dropped. No save, no miss chance. Only way to save is to have more HP.

And better still... versus NPC parties, the wizards usually have lower HP than the fighters. So it preferentially takes out rogues and wizards.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I always thought of 5e sleep as basically an illusory fireball. If you take too much "damage" then you think it kills you, and it knocks you out. Otherwise you realize you're not burnt.