Sleight of Hand on Spell Component Pouches

[Jhulae]

A 1st level rogue would have a hard time taking a 20th level mage's spell components.

1 - He has to get to the mage. The best way to do this is to hide and move silently.(Otherwise the mage Disintegrates them with their first action) The mage may have decent listen/spot skills, and if they have their familiar, they get +2. (Plus their familiar gets to roll too)

2 - It does provoke an AoO, which as Gerion of Mercadia pointed out, can cause a concentration check to ruin the attempt. Rogues don't have concentration as a class skill. (Though bards do) A 20th level mage probably has some sort of a melee weapon. (A staff will do)

3 - Many spells don't have material components, like Finger of Death. (Which will likely be the next thing the wizard does to the poor rogue)

4 - A 20th level mage probably didn't get to 20th level believing their spell component pouch was untouchable. Aside from Hiding their spell component pouch (Which I believe requires sleight of hand to hide an object on your person) the wizard could put all maner of ensorcelments on the pouch to prevent theft. A quick glance tells me Symbol of Death need not be scribed on a non-movable surface in 3.5. (It just can't be cast on a weapon) Therefore, a wizard is likely to inscribe one or more Symbols on their spell component pouches. Since foes trying to use Sleight of hand are few and far between (since stabbing the mage in his sleep is a far better option) this is probably a good investment. (And has an added benift of disableing other unseen rogues within 60')

I don't recall seeing it was a 1st level Rogue taking a 20th level Mage's pouch but, regardless. If it's not combat, it'd be an opposed Slight of Hand versus Spot check, and on a DC20 (regardless of the spot check) the Rogue could get it (provided it wasn't hidden) via the Slight of Hand rules. (Whether the rogue would survive after lifting it is another matter entirely.)

If it *is* in combat, it's a Sunder (to destroy) or Disarm (to remove) against the Pouch.

 

[takasi]

Is there somewhere in the rules that says you cannot use sleight of hand in combat to lift small objects (like a spell component pouch) from a person?

The rules say:

"You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. "

It does not say it is the ONLY way to do this. Can anyone point out a specific section of the RAW that says sleight of hand can only be used outside of combat?

 

[James McMurray]

No, the rules don't say it.

 

[takasi]

No, the rules don't say it.

Then:

If you try to take something from another creature, you must make a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check to obtain it.

Lift a small object from a person = DC 20

Spell component pouch weighs 2 lb.

By the RAW it seems like it's not too difficult to do this, assuming you can base the wizard.

Let's assume this is possible and that you do not houserule that it cannot be done.

Possible defenses?

A wizard can conceal the object on himself to begin with, if he also has sleight of hand. One of the uses of SoH is to conceal an object, which requires an opponent to do a search check (standard action) to first find the object.

 

[James McMurray]

If it's concealed he'll have a tough time getting to his components when he wants to cast a spell.

He could use the magic belt from Complete Arcane to store components, but that just ups the DC.

Best defense: teleport away after your pouch is stolen, come back with 8 pouches, execute pocket picker with extreme prejudice to ensure it doesn't happen again.

 

[amethal]

What about using sleight of hand to take a divine focus. Is the rule the same?

My character can make a DC 20 sleight of hand check 45% of the time (+9 bonus despite only having 1 rank in it) and always tries to get as close to enemy casters as he can.

 

[James McMurray]

By the rules it would work the same, but I'd discuss it with your GM first.

 

[Vysirez]

This and sundering holy symbols is why any caster over 3rd or so level will generally have 3-4 of said objects attached to themselves at any time. If I was a wizard and I was dependant on various extrememly cheap items I store in a pouch to cast the majority of my spells, I would have them all over, a couple on my belt, a couple on my vest, one inside my vest, mabye one or two attached to my sleeves and/or pant legs.

Same thing goes for holy symbols, I'd have one hanging from my belt, and one etched in my shield and one in my helmet and so on.

 

[Jack Simth]

The counter?

A Handy Haversack with extra Spell Components Pouches / Holy Symbols. The rogue steals your spell components pouch... on his turn. On your turn, when the free action to retreive your spell components fails, you use a move (which doesn't provoke) to get another out, a free to get the components, and a standard and Swift to do something. The rogue ended up making you waste a move action.

 

[Plane Sailing]

If you look at the pictures in the PHB (e.g. Mailee) it seems that rather than have a single pouch, they probably have lots of pockets all over their clothes for keeping components in - which would make sense, firstly because it is harder to get things stolen all at once, and secondly because you don't have to go fiddling around in a bag looking for those little custard tarts when you know you always keep them in the second pocket from the top on the left and can retrieve them from there without looking when you want to cast the spell (or you get hungry).

I always assume that wizards buy a bag of spell components and then distribute them amongst their pockets as they wish.

Cheers