Slings are... wow, really?

[Greenfield]

Thanks for the historical update.

As for the fusion: The Robin Hood legend is said to have roots in a particular individual, but it is still a legend.

Timing of the tales would place it in the late 1100s to early 1200s though, considering the people involved: The "Evil Prince John" of Robin Hood fame later became the unloved King John the 1st, who signed the Magna Carta in 1215.

The Normans were, of course, from Normandy, and Richard is said to have spoken French better than he spoke English, due to the influence of his French mother. The same is said of John (no matter how delightful the English accent of Claude Raines who played him in the famous movie.)

As for the longbow against heavy armor: If only the French had thought to armor their horses as thoroughly as they did themselves... Having your horse fall while at a full charge can kill a man, and having it land on you can do much the same.

Also note that the heaviest armor we have from the age was actually tournament armor, rather than field plate. Tournament armor was heavier, specifically to resist the lance. This was the stuff that caused tales to be told of knights needing ladders or winches to hoist them into the saddle, and of men who, once down, were as helpless as turtles on their backs. (Not entirely true, but an indicator of the difference.) Not something a man could or would wear for battles that may last days, and campaigns that might last for months.

<edit>Not an historian, not pretending to be, and I'm sure your knowledge tops mine. I'm just a gamer, with thte normal gamer's interest in the period.</edit>

 

[Celebrim]

In my game, both slings and longbows are Exotic Weapons, reflective of the long time required to become skilled in such powerful but difficult to use weapons.

Slings rock.

In fantasy games, they are likely to rock even harder once the slinger realizes he can manufacture exotic or magical ammunition relatively easily.

 

[FoxWander]

There is a Korean archery trick that I saw demonstrated to defeat the "End to end" cycle. Using a long grooved rod as a guide for the arrow, they can shoot a dart-sized arrow as short as six inches from a standard Korean horse bow. The rod acts as a guide, and the lightweight projectile takes off at a much higher velocity than the normal arrow, and carries for a much greater range. They get to plink at enemy forces when the enemy thinks they are safely beyond bowshot, and leave the enemy with arrows they can't fire back.

Do you have a link to more info about this? It sounds interesting.

 

[Greenfield]

It was a live demo I attended in person. There's an archery class/club at a local park, and I shoot there once in a while.

So sorry, I don't have a link. I'll ask the name of the guide stick next time I see the archer who did the demo. Neither of us show up every week, so...

 

[Tovec]

Keep in mind I haven't read the other posts on this thread, otherwise...

Well I believe the slings shown in those videos were "War Slings" found in the races of the wild.

The "war slings" are..
5gp, 1d6 (s) dmg, 1d8 (m) dmg, X4 crit, 50 range increment
Whereas regular "slings"
free, 1d3 (s), 1d4 (m), x2 crit, 50 range increment

The latter is a simple weapon whereas the former is exotic. Meaning the GOOD version of the weapon is something that takes extensive training and pretty kickass, and the crappy one is a strip of cloth throwing rocks.

 

[Mystic Lemur]

50' still seems a little short on the war sling. Maybe up it to 75'.

Do slings not get iterative attacks? I always played that they did. A sling bullet can't be any slower to pull and load than an arrow.

 

[FoxWander]

According to the rules, slings require a move action to reload- so no iterative attacks.

 

[aboyd]

Thanks Tovec! Here are some other things I've found.

Miniatures Handbook

Bullet of Sound: +1 sling bullet, 1d8 sonic damage to all within a 10' radius, save or be stunned for 1 round. Price 196 gp.

Kingdoms of Kalamar

Sculpted shot: looks like an iron golf ball, as normal sling bullet except +20% range. Price 4 sp.

Dragon Compendium

Flashstone: upon striking, in a 15' burst, save or be blinded for 1 round, plus lingering penalty to Spot & Search. It doesn't appear to do any normal damage. Price 30 gp.

(Right next to the Flashstone is the Firestone. It doesn't say that it can be used with a sling, but it has similar text otherwise. It's 1d6 fire damage to the square/person it strikes, plus ignites flammable materials. Price 50 gp.)

Complete Scoundrel

Powdered Silver: 1d6 "silver" damage (only harms those who have DR that is overcome by silver), save or be sickened 1 round. Price 20 gp.

Liquid Sunlight: 1d6 damage to vampires & those harmed by daylight, has a torch-like radiance for 1 round after striking. Any creatures with light sensitivity are dazzled for 1 round if struck. Price 20 gp.

Ferrous Aqua: 1d6 "cold iron" damage (only harms those who have DR that is overcome by cold iron), save or be sickened 1 round. Price 20 gp.

Rust Cube: if it strikes a metal object (including worn armor), the object takes 1d6 points of damage (ignoring hardness), plus an additional 1d6 points of damage each round for the next 2 rounds.

Planar Handbook

Elemental Loadstone: 2d6 bludgeoning damage on a successful hit, but range increment of only 10' because the rock is very dense (weighs 50 pounds or so).

Magic Item Compendium

Explosive Sling: +1 sling, deals normal bullet damage plus extra 2d6 points of fire damage to target (no save). Creatures within 10 must save or also take 2d6 points of fire damage. Price 36,300 gp.

Stunshot Sling: +1 sling. 3x/day, save or be stunned for 1 round. Price 7,800 gp.

Blight Stone: sling bullet, must hit as a ranged touch attack, deals no damage but creates a 10' radius cloud, dealing 5d6 points of damage to plant life (save for half). Price 300 gp.

Glitter Stone: ranged touch attack, explodes in a 10' radius burst, invisible creatures become visible for 3 rounds. Price 450 gp.

Stench Stone: Any living creature struck becomes nauseated for 1 round, target exudes a stench for 3 rounds that causes all creatures within 10 feet to be sickened. Price 300 gp.

I love all this stuff, but only Sculpted Shot and Tovec's war sling appear to be non-magical. Maybe that's good enough, though I was hoping for more.

Oh, FoxWander & Mystic Lemur, I always ran my games in such a way that the Quick Draw feat would allow a PC to attack at full BAB with a sling. I have no idea if other DMs would allow that. I suppose some probably already allow full BAB attacks, not realizing the details of the sling rules, and I suppose some DMs would completely disallow full BAB even with Quick Draw. Since the sling appears to be underpowered when matched with what we see in our own real-world history, I'd be hopeful that a Quick Draw ruling would suffice. It really seems to need help to come up to snuff.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Iirc From Stone to Steel might have a little about different mundane sling bullets (eg, stone, clay, lead), as well as different sized shot, and multiple shot. I think it also mentions slingstaffs?

 

[Ashtagon]

Looking at this data, I'd say: needing another feat to be able to use a sling like a pro shouldn't be necessary.

Just to be clear, my conclusion from analysing real-world data is that 50 feet is a realistic range for a competent slinger (ie has "weapon proficiency"). That feat I homebrewed to add 50% to the range is to bring slinging into the realms of the fantastical. It reflects the ranges that can be achieved when using a shot that is about 1/10 the weight of the shot the game statistics use, without a corresponding loss of damage.

Someone else asked why Wisdom to damage. It's because it reflects the idea of being able to perceive weak spots more accurately. All ranged weapons get Wisdom to damage in my house rules. Mighty bows and slings get a choice of Wisdom or Strength (not both) to damage.