D&D (2024) Smite Changes

[Pauln6]

I don't get why this is still a thing. The current rules don't mention anything about critical hits, and the last one says we reverted to 2014 crit rules. There is nothing in the rules I can see that would prevent a paladin from criting with a smite

Smite and single classed sneak damage spikes are a problem with crits. The fact that they tried an alternative in one of the earlier packets suggests that they are aware of this problem, but how to fix it without making crits very boring?

Monsters die fast enough without doubling all damage on a crit. One option might be to use inspiration to double all your damage dice, which would cut down on frequency of the big spikes. Another option would be only to double weapon damage but expand the definition of weapon damage to certain other class features. Another would be to add specific riders to class features rather than just doubling all dice. That could favour things like battlemasters, colossus slayer, one extra sneak damage die etc.

In my campaign, we do not allow extra damage from magic items to double on a crit.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

It's not simply a matter of preference or "opinion". it's poorly designed because it creates a perversion of the gameplay loop where a player changes or waits to declare their action with a retcon after seeing the result & I've explained that previously. The fact that you are ignoring that in order to dismissively reframe it as a mere matter of preference & opinion speaks volumes about the indefensibility of that design.

You may be surprised how many people only vaguely care about the sanctity of "The gameplay Loop".

 

[Bill Zebub]

You may be surprised how many people only vaguely care about the sanctity of "The gameplay Loop".

Wait...it has sanctity? That's news to me.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Smite and single classed sneak damage spikes are a problem with crits. The fact that they tried an alternative in one of the earlier packets suggests that they are aware of this problem, but how to fix it without making crits very boring?

You know they had a meeting where they were all, "So the thing about sneak attack and smite not getting doubled on a crit got a lot of pushback."

"Yeah, and people are so freaked out they aren't focusing on all the other stuff we need feedback on."

"Ok, so let's take it off the table until playtesting is over. We'll add it back in just before we go to press."

"Roger that."

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Wait...it has sanctity? That's news to me.

I'm not throwing it out, but it's probably sitting behind the garlic powder, seasoning salt, and dill that gets more attention.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I think the right balance for smite is...

Item Interaction: You infuse your weapon with inner power. The next damage roll made using this weapon adds Xd8 radiant damage where X is the level of spell slot you lose when powering the weapon. This infusion is lost at the end of a long rest.

1. Limits smite to once a round.
2. Must smite before rolling but don't lose it if you miss.
3. Can still crit but can't be saved only for crits.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don’t see a problem with waiting to see if you crit before smiting. Taken too far it just means you finish the day with unused spell slots.

 

[Pauln6]

I don’t see a problem with waiting to see if you crit before smiting. Taken too far it just means you finish the day with unused spell slots.

In my experience, paladins just aren't bothered about their spells. They save them for boss fights. Inflicting 70+ damage on the big bad goes a long way to ending that big bad with trivial risk.

It will depend on group composition and we converted our characters to 5e at level 12 and they are now 16 so most of my experience is at the top end, which may be skewing my position.

From what I can see, committing to using the smite or sneak before you roll simply prevents exploitation of crits. If you can only do it once per round, this will also help. That might be all they need. My own compromise was to add 2d8 +4 damage per level of the spell above 1. Saves rolling and only the initial 2d8 is doubled.

We don't have any regular single classed rogues but when we did have one briefly, the player was astonished at how much damage they did on a hit.

 

[fuindordm]

Would it be better if the power said "if this attack misses, you regain the spell slot used to Smite"?

Maybe if charging up your attack with a smite had some other cost, such as a bonus action.

 

[Pauln6]

Maybe if charging up your attack with a smite had some other cost, such as a bonus action.

Yeah there must be a reason why they chose specifically not to include smiting in the action economy. This is one option but without understanding the butterfly effect based off that original decision, I am not sure if it would be good or bad. It may be that limiting smiting to once per round, declaring intention to Smite before rolling (not expended on a miss), and giving access to more interesting spells might move this issue to the sweet spot.