Sneak attack & Creatures whose vitals are beyond reach

[frankthedm]

The rules for sneak attack have a clause in them sometimes seems to go unnoticed.

A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Now, I like this passage, a lot, but I have always been a fan of big monsters more than sneaky heroes. I do think there is a possibility the 'vitals beyond reach' was meant for the critters, like hydras and kraken, who have limby targets that extend far beyond their normal combat facing. While Sneak attack does have a ‘higher standard’ than a normal critical hit, since critical hits are not foiled by concealment, this can really put a crimp in the rogues style.

When I play a rogue, I don’t mind reaching for the long spear, "ah simple and reach", but my treshhold for adversity is pretty darn high. Though forcing a rogue grab a reach weapon for the bigger foes helps balance out how overly friendly 2 weapon fighting is to sneak attack. And it gives the rogue a reason to get enlarged person'ed once in a while rather than seeking permencied reduced person.

Sneak Attack
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach

 

[Hypersmurf]

The 3E FAQ gave an example of using a readied action to strike at the arm of a Large creature when it attacked with a claw.

You're ten feet away - you can't reach the creature, but it can reach you. However, to reach you, it must reach into your square; the FAQ used the readied action as a mechanic to strike the creature when it did so.

This is what I would consider "striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach"... not attacking a creature in an adjacent square.

How do you rule if a fighter with a longsword wishes to Sunder a hydra's neck? "Make a roll"? Or "Sorry, you can only reach its leg"? Given the note about the hydra's heads whipping about, which suggests that even a halfling with a Small dagger can attempt to Sunder a head, couldn't that same halfling stab it in a neck?

-Hyp.

 

[pawsplay]

Heck, there's an artery in the leg you can stab that will reliably kill someone. I can't imagine the vitals of anything smaller than Huge being out of the reach of a Medium creature under basically any normal circumstances. The troll reach example is okay, a kraken is a better example.

I must confess, I can't figure out the poll options. Which what?

 

[moritheil]

It's deja vu all over again!

There are certain feats that allow players to duck under or climb on larger enemies; if you enforce the "out of reach vitals" rule strictly, be sure to point your rogues toward such feats.

 

[werk]

Can a tiny or fine rogue sneak attack a huge or collossal creature?

 

[lukelightning]

Rogues are already screwed out of sneak attacking by a huge number of monsters; undead (a VERY common monster), constructs, elementals, and anything with concealment (sneak attacking in a shadowy alley? Only if you've got dark vision!).

I wouldn't prevent a rogue from sneak attacking giants or dragons or whatever. Yeah, a giant's heart is out of reach of a halfling rogue, but its arteries or hamstring aren't. C'mon, rogues are supposed to be able to take out big guys in heroic moments.

 

[Nail]

Rogues are already screwed out of sneak attacking by a huge number of monsters; ....

Yes, yes, yes...

But this poll is by frankthedm. As he says, his "treshhold for adversity is pretty darn high".

 

[lukelightning]

Also, if you think some creature's skin is too thick to sneak attack through, then give it fortification, though I personally wouldn't.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Heck, there's an artery in the leg you can stab that will reliably kill someone.

True, but it specifically lists attacking the limbs as an example of when you can't sneak attack...

Well, no, I suppose it lists attacking the limbs when the vitals are out of reach as an example of when you can't sneak attack. If there's something vital in the limb (like the artery), then you're attacking the limbs while the vitals are not out of reach...

-Hyp.

 

[Vorput]

Well, no, I suppose it lists attacking the limbs when the vitals are out of reach as an example of when you can't sneak attack. If there's something vital in the limb (like the artery), then you're attacking the limbs while the vitals are not out of reach...

-Hyp.

Quick! Someone create a list of vitals and the various anatomies of all the creatures in the SRD!

I think Mind Flayer's brains should be in their stomach...