sniper shot spell question

[LokiDR]

"Unlike with a rogue's sneak attack, the initiate's target does not have to be flat-footed or denied its Dexterity bonus, but if it is, the initiate's extra precision damage stacks with sneak attack damage. Treat the initiate's ranged precision attack as a sneak attack in all other ways."

So, apart from the need to check if the target is denied Dex, it is treated like a sneak attack.

With Sniper Shot, your next ranged attack can be a sneak attack regardless of distance.

Your Ranged Precision is treated like a sneak attack; if you can sneak attack at 100 feet, and you're treating the RP attack as a sneak attack, can't you RP attack at 100 feet?

-Hyp.

Its mostly the same, but they don't use the same names, just most of the same rules. If RP reference sneak attack or Sniper Shot refered to any precision based damage, this would be simple. As is, your 100' shot is a sneak attack (assuming other conditions) but not a RP strike, by the RAW. RP is like a sneak attack, but it doesn't say it IS a sneak attack, hence the difference.

Really, I would allow it, RAW be damned. Still, it isn't technically legal.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Its mostly the same, but they don't use the same names, just most of the same rules. If RP reference sneak attack or Sniper Shot refered to any precision based damage, this would be simple. As is, your 100' shot is a sneak attack (assuming other conditions) but not a RP strike, by the RAW. RP is like a sneak attack, but it doesn't say it IS a sneak attack, hence the difference.

Sniper Shot is changing the conditions under which sneak attacks can be made, and RP is treated as a sneak attack (with one exception).

If the conditions under which sneak attack is allowed are changed, then the conditions under which RP is allowed are changed (with one exception).

RP isn't just 'any precision based damage'... it's precision based damage that is treated as a sneak attack.

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

By that logic, so is point blank shot. Should that apply as well?

 

[Hypersmurf]

By that logic, so is point blank shot. Should that apply as well?

Er?

POINT BLANK SHOT [GENERAL]
Benefit: You get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.

Special: A fighter may select Point Blank Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats.

No reference to sneak attack in the Point Blank Shot text.

Contrast:

Unlike with a rogue's sneak attack, the initiate's target does not have to be flat-footed or denied its Dexterity bonus, but if it is, the initiate's extra precision damage stacks with sneak attack damage. Treat the initiate's ranged precision attack as a sneak attack in all other ways.

Reference to sneak attack in the Ranged Precision text.

See how Ranged Precision says "treat as sneak attack" and Point Blank shot doesn't say "treat as sneak attack"?

That's the reason I'd allow Sniper Shot to affect Ranged Precision, but not Point Blank Shot.

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

Point blank shot is precision based damage that is only applicable in 30'. Minus the last sentence of RP (which I had been spacing out), RP is the same.

I still don't think Sniper applies to RP by the RAW because RP says "in all OTHER ways". The 30' is not reference in the 'other'. RP says it is limited to 30', so I would say the rules limit it to 30' unless some other ability mentions all precision based damage, which sniper shot does not. RP isn't TECHNICLY a sneak attack, it is OTHERWISE a sneak attack.

Again, I'd let it fly. This is not broken, and I like the flavor. I think they were intended to work together more or less, and this is really just a minor semantics issue that isn't important.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I still don't think Sniper applies to RP by the RAW because RP says "in all OTHER ways".

Other than "you can RP someone who isn't flat-footed or denied Dex".

That's the bit that's different from sneak attack. The 30' limit is the same as sneak attack, so it's not part of what's being excluded by the 'other'. The 'other' refers to the immediately prior sentence that describes how they differ.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Thanks for posting the ability, LG.

Having read that, I'll agree with Hyp and say that the Sniper's Shot spell will allow you to make a Ranged Precision attack at a longer range than normal.

 

[LokiDR]

Other than "you can RP someone who isn't flat-footed or denied Dex".

That's the bit that's different from sneak attack. The 30' limit is the same as sneak attack, so it's not part of what's being excluded by the 'other'. The 'other' refers to the immediately prior sentence that describes how they differ.

All right, I'll buy that. I still find it redundant that the 30' limit was repeated, but I'll accept it as a modified sneak attack.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm not sure it would work... If RP is treated as Sneak Attack in all other ways, then would it allow someone to enter a PrC that requires you to have Sneak Attack?

 

[Stormrunner]

I'm not sure it would work... If RP is treated as Sneak Attack in all other ways, then would it allow someone to enter a PrC that requires you to have Sneak Attack?

Oooh, good question. I'd have to rule on a case-by-case basis. (Which PrCs were you thinking of, BTW?) If the PrC focuses on sneak attack, and adding special abilities to sneak attack (like the Crippling Blow feat), then I'd say yes. If it's more of a stealth-focused PrC (ninja, etc.) and the sneak attack is a "sideboard" ability, then I'd say no.