So did anyone buy Champions of Ruin?

[Dark Psion]

I was going to wait for some reviews to come in on this one, but I haven't seen anyone talking about it.

So did anyone get it and what did you think about it?

 

[philreed]

Got it but haven't had a chance to read it, sorry.

(I'm currently reading No Press RPG Anthology -- www.nopress.net -- and recommend others check it out.)

 

[Sammael]

There is some discussion about it on Candlekeep forums, and a heated debate on the pitifully weak statted Elder Eternal Evils on the WotC forum. I still don't have the book, and I am not sure I'm even going to order it.

 

[Arnwyn]

Yes, I have it.

So far, it's not very good (read: I don't like it).

The feats are dull as dirt (and a bunch of others are reprinted from BoVD), the spells are pretty boring (though there are at least 5 epic spells - a nice touch), and the races...! What can I say about the races...? Not only are they boring, but they're stupid as well.

One is simply a Savage Species take of a Monsters of Faerun monster (can't even remember the name), and the other two have simply no basis in the Realms. They are both LA+0 and are completely uninteresting. The Extaminaar is a race of kind-of human with, uh, snakey features (and are servants of the noble house of Extaminos in Hlondeth - a rather out-of-the-way city state in the middle of nowhere - and little reason for their existence). The other race (Krinth, or something?) are slaves from the Shadovar city. Again, LA+0, and dull as dirt.

Gah. Awful.

I'm just making my way through the PrCs now, and they seem all right. I hate generic PrCs, but I'm pretty pleased with FR ones (as they are grounded in the setting, and are usually consistent with past FR material). The final chapter with major NPCs is probably worth the price of admission. Eltab is the best of the bunch (CR 28). [Edit: Yeah, the Elder Eternal Evils CRs are way too low. Poorly done.]

(Aside: As for it's use outside of FR - who cares? I play in the FR setting, and read it as such.)

 

[kilamanjaro]

I have it, and I've read about the first 70 pages. I'm liking it so far. It seems to have a good balance of fluff to crunch. I'm not happy about the low (21-28) CRs on the Elder Evils, but I planned on just using the WotC stats as a place to start anyway. I'd say the book really does have some useful advice on running an evil campaign.

 

[Voadam]

Are the elemental evils too weak or are the CRs too low for their statted power?

 

[kilamanjaro]

The elementals are too weak. I think most people wanted them to be CR70 or higher. These are supposed to be monsters that the entire pantheon fears. When they're only CR21, Eliminster could kill them. That's not good for any one.

 

[Shemeska]

I'm still debating getting this or not. The stated reasons from Rich Baker for them making the Elder Eternal Evils so weak was, more or less, so as to make them attractive and valid targets for 20th level or so PCs. That design philosophy, and the shafting of the flavor and mythology surrounding the critters in order to seemingly kowtow to powergamers may end up costing them a sale from me, but I'll still give the book a look when I see it in the store and I might still consider buying it.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Don't have it yet, but plan on geting it. What does it have any adivce on running evil campaigns in the realms? That' would be a useful chapter to have aye.

 

[BobROE]

I'm still debating getting this or not. The stated reasons from Rich Baker for them making the Elder Eternal Evils so weak was, more or less, so as to make them attractive and valid targets for 20th level or so PCs. That design philosophy, and the shafting of the flavor and mythology surrounding the critters in order to seemingly kowtow to powergamers may end up costing them a sale from me, but I'll still give the book a look when I see it in the store and I might still consider buying it.

But the mythology is still there, it's rather the power level of the creatures doesn't match up with what people think they should be.
And everyone complained that having god stats was useless (in P&P) because players will never (should never) combat them, so what's the point in putting stats for creatures in a book that are so high no character could possibly fight them (if that was your want, not saying it's what everyone wants), you might as well not put stats for them in at all.