D&D 5E So i created a boss for my game...
- Thread starter Soprantho
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Clint_L
Hero
I think you need to give them a lot more options - right now, this monster could be pretty easily handled by a decent level 7 party. Maybe less. Reckless attacks are almost always a huge disadvantage for a BBEG because they generally take a lot more attacks than they dish out. So basically this Aspect of Mephistopheles is just a tank'n'spank. Barbarian, druid, fighter or paladin in the front to soak up that damage while everyone else goes ham. Easy peasy, over in a few rounds.
I assume that's not what you are going for, so in addition to their melee attacks, I would give them some kind of supernatural movement so they can't just be pinned in place and beat down. Probably a legendary action that lets them blink around the battlefield, with a suitable poof of brimstone. I would also give them some kind of way to attack at range, probably an AoE. And a flight speed. Dominate person? Summon demon?
It's aspect of Mephistopheles - it should have all kinds of tricks up its sleeve. This version is more like a demonic barbarian. He's even kind of dumb, for an aspect of a demon lord, let alone Mephistopheles (in regular D&D lore he is an extremely powerful Devil, BTW, the Lord of Cania and a wizard without peer, noted for his intellectual prowess).
I assume that's not what you are going for, so in addition to their melee attacks, I would give them some kind of supernatural movement so they can't just be pinned in place and beat down. Probably a legendary action that lets them blink around the battlefield, with a suitable poof of brimstone. I would also give them some kind of way to attack at range, probably an AoE. And a flight speed. Dominate person? Summon demon?
It's aspect of Mephistopheles - it should have all kinds of tricks up its sleeve. This version is more like a demonic barbarian. He's even kind of dumb, for an aspect of a demon lord, let alone Mephistopheles (in regular D&D lore he is an extremely powerful Devil, BTW, the Lord of Cania and a wizard without peer, noted for his intellectual prowess).
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Oofta
Legend
Historically he's called a demon in German folklore but in D&D he's represented as a devil.
mamba
Hero
Coincidentally, the Monster Manual Expanded II has one... maybe take some inspiration from it
In general, I do recommend these monster books, so take a look and see if you like them
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Oofta
Legend
So, I'll be the first to admit that even though I create custom monsters on a fairly regular basis, this is one of those things I hope they revise for the 2024 edition, because the instructions in the DMG are a bit of a mess. I mean, if you went by the DMG - AC 18, HP 281-295, Attack Bonus +8, DMG/Round 93-98, Save DC 18. None of the monsters in the published books seem to match that.
So if I look at some of the more recent monsters, say Umbraxakar a huge dragon from Dungeon of the Mad Mage we have AC 19 (a bit higher), HP 212, while in dim light has resistance to damage that isn't force, psychic or radiant, good saves, etc. He has 3 attacks, a bite at +12 to hit for 18 dmg and 2 claws +12 to hit, 14 damage each. So if all 3 hit 46 points of damage in a single round. But he also has a breath weapon that does 66 points of damage, probably to multiple PCs which really ups his average. He also has some fun things like a repulsive breath to push people around and can fly away without taking opportunity attacks.
Or take Typhon from Mythic Odysseys of Theros. His AC is 17, and has 195 HP but also regenerates 20 HP every round unless it takes radiant. He's +12 to hit, with 3 attacks, bites for 35 damage, a constrict that grapples and does 17 damage and 17 ongoing damage until the target escapes (up to 2 creatures), a maw that does 26 piercing plus 19 acid damage. So total of 78 damage in one round with up to 34 ongoing damage between two creatures. Typhon is not legendary so no legendary resistance or actions.
So we have 2 very different monsters, neither of which match up to the DMG. The dragon Umbraxar has a decent armor class, probably opens with a breath weapon, does it's best to split up the party to divide and conquer. Typhon is a brute, wade into combat and do a bunch of damage while regenerating unless it takes radiant damage.
Meanwhile your guy is just going to wade into combat, likely invite attacks and does 34 damage if they hit. All while likely being reckless to invite even more damage. So ... yeah. He needs to be beefed up significantly and given some cool actions.
Breaking it down a bit, I'm perfectly okay with a demonic brute but if you want this to be a legendary they should do cool stuff.
AC/HP - if you're going to make this a brute, leaving the AC at 17 is okay, but it also kind of depends on your group. You know them better than I do but many groups are going to chop him into pieces quickly. I'd up the HP but also give him 20 HP regen per round.
Speed and movement - do your PCs fly? If they do I'd add a fly speed and big leathery bat wings. Ability scores, etc are all fine. One of the things I ignore for higher level PCs is the resistance to damage adding to the CR of the monster, it doesn't really come into play. Fear aura is fine. I probably wouldn't bother with reckless.
Next is the legendary resistance. This is a feature, not a legendary action and he should have 3 (at least). I actually make it the number of players -1, but I'm a mean DM.
Legendary Actions, again I make this number of players -1. No need to take it easy on the PCs.
The attacks are okay, but should do significantly more damage. Let's say 17 slashing damage plus 17 (5d6) fire or cold damage. Make a dex save DC 19 or take 18 ongoing fire or cold damage, the Aspect's choice.
I'd also give them a recharge ability, perhaps he attacks everyone within 10 feet while moving his base speed (no opportunity attacks), attacking with advantage. If he hits do normal hit damage and make a strength save DC 19 or be thrown 20 feet away.
Legendary Actions?
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I have a tendency to make these kind of monsters really tough, but they kind of need to be. Especially if they don't always have lair actions to back them up.
So if I look at some of the more recent monsters, say Umbraxakar a huge dragon from Dungeon of the Mad Mage we have AC 19 (a bit higher), HP 212, while in dim light has resistance to damage that isn't force, psychic or radiant, good saves, etc. He has 3 attacks, a bite at +12 to hit for 18 dmg and 2 claws +12 to hit, 14 damage each. So if all 3 hit 46 points of damage in a single round. But he also has a breath weapon that does 66 points of damage, probably to multiple PCs which really ups his average. He also has some fun things like a repulsive breath to push people around and can fly away without taking opportunity attacks.
Or take Typhon from Mythic Odysseys of Theros. His AC is 17, and has 195 HP but also regenerates 20 HP every round unless it takes radiant. He's +12 to hit, with 3 attacks, bites for 35 damage, a constrict that grapples and does 17 damage and 17 ongoing damage until the target escapes (up to 2 creatures), a maw that does 26 piercing plus 19 acid damage. So total of 78 damage in one round with up to 34 ongoing damage between two creatures. Typhon is not legendary so no legendary resistance or actions.
So we have 2 very different monsters, neither of which match up to the DMG. The dragon Umbraxar has a decent armor class, probably opens with a breath weapon, does it's best to split up the party to divide and conquer. Typhon is a brute, wade into combat and do a bunch of damage while regenerating unless it takes radiant damage.
Meanwhile your guy is just going to wade into combat, likely invite attacks and does 34 damage if they hit. All while likely being reckless to invite even more damage. So ... yeah. He needs to be beefed up significantly and given some cool actions.
Breaking it down a bit, I'm perfectly okay with a demonic brute but if you want this to be a legendary they should do cool stuff.
AC/HP - if you're going to make this a brute, leaving the AC at 17 is okay, but it also kind of depends on your group. You know them better than I do but many groups are going to chop him into pieces quickly. I'd up the HP but also give him 20 HP regen per round.
Speed and movement - do your PCs fly? If they do I'd add a fly speed and big leathery bat wings. Ability scores, etc are all fine. One of the things I ignore for higher level PCs is the resistance to damage adding to the CR of the monster, it doesn't really come into play. Fear aura is fine. I probably wouldn't bother with reckless.
Next is the legendary resistance. This is a feature, not a legendary action and he should have 3 (at least). I actually make it the number of players -1, but I'm a mean DM.
Legendary Actions, again I make this number of players -1. No need to take it easy on the PCs.
The attacks are okay, but should do significantly more damage. Let's say 17 slashing damage plus 17 (5d6) fire or cold damage. Make a dex save DC 19 or take 18 ongoing fire or cold damage, the Aspect's choice.
I'd also give them a recharge ability, perhaps he attacks everyone within 10 feet while moving his base speed (no opportunity attacks), attacking with advantage. If he hits do normal hit damage and make a strength save DC 19 or be thrown 20 feet away.
Legendary Actions?
- Give him a fly speed and the copy the dragon's fly away attacking and knocking people prone bit for 2 actions or just let him move away without provoking. You don't want him surrounded too easily.
- Legendary action attack is fine.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I have a tendency to make these kind of monsters really tough, but they kind of need to be. Especially if they don't always have lair actions to back them up.
aco175
Legend
I would give it 3 legendary actions and change hellbending to something less wordy. The knock prone 10ft away is kind of meh. Something like deflecting spells or healing itself is fine.
The base attacks of 2d10+6 fire or cold are kind of weak as well. Maybe give it a huge sword coated in fire and deals 2d10 sword and 2d10 fire. Same for cold damage. I guess it can be claw damage in the same context.
I would also give it immunity to fire and cold instead of resistance.
The base attacks of 2d10+6 fire or cold are kind of weak as well. Maybe give it a huge sword coated in fire and deals 2d10 sword and 2d10 fire. Same for cold damage. I guess it can be claw damage in the same context.
I would also give it immunity to fire and cold instead of resistance.
Uni-the-Unicorn!
Hero
This a serious misunderstanding of how the DMG guidelines.
Quickleaf
Legend
@Soprantho For significant named/boss monsters with an important narrative attached, before I make stats I ask "what sort of play experience do I want with this monster? what do I imagine the fight looking like? what would be the most special thing about this monster/fight?" That might be a helpful exercise for you (if you want).
Clint_L
Hero
One thing I would add is that if what you want is a brute, don’t call him an aspect of Mephistopheles. Not just because that’s the opposite of what Mephistopheles is in conventional D&D lore, but it’s also the opposite of what he is in pop culture. Unless you are going for irony.
Oofta
Legend
Do you have any actual advice, or just come in for hit-an-run-criticism that helps no one?
Uni-the-Unicorn!
Hero
I think pointing out a misconception is useful. However, I am not a DM and not a monster designer, so I can’t help much in that department.
Oofta
Legend
For the most part I ignore that chart and base my monster designs on other monsters as I was showing.
Telling someone they're wrong without being able to explain your reasoning is not useful in any way. Not to me, not to the OP, not to any other DM who might be looking for advice. It's just a random put down "you don't know what you're talking about".
What's the point of posting if you don't know what a better option is or how I'm misusing the chart? Why bother if you have absolutely nothing to add, no insight into how things can be done better?
Uni-the-Unicorn!
Hero
It has been discussed on these forums many times and if I wasn’t on my phone I would track down some links for you. But your misunderstanding of the DMG has been covered many times. The best I could do at the time was point it out. I don’t see spreading misinformation as useful, but pointing that out was and is the best I can at this time.
Edit. I could summon my DM, and will do so if you want, but they are recovering from surgery.
Oofta
Legend
Telling someone "you're wrong", especially about something like this that supposedly fairly objective is not helpful to anyone.
I'm not upset, I'm not in angry but I do get frustrated by this kind of behavior. I'm not calling you out personally, it's something I see on a pretty regular basis. This assertion as fact that someone else is wrong without backing up the assertion at all.
I have no problem being mistaken about something. It happens. But tell me how to fix my mistake, tell me what I'm doing wrong. At least attempt to be helpful.
Because if you don't do that it just comes off as antagonistic. You're not adding any value by just tearing down.
LordEntrails
Hero
@Soprantho
As others have said, there need to be more. As is this guy will get trounced quickly. Something like thunderstep, but with fire instead of sound would be good as a legendary action. That means that surrounding him or pinning him down is dangerous (up the damage of it too.)
Then I suggest finding one thing he's dangerous for, maybe its an ability where he psychically stuns opponents, or if he hits one target with both attacks they are in mortal danger (damage, effect, something).
Then he needs more hit points. Maybe an ability to heal or regen, otherwise he will be dead in 2 rounds if the party can nova him. Figure out how much damage your party can do, then make sure he lasts at least 6-8 rounds.
As others have said, there need to be more. As is this guy will get trounced quickly. Something like thunderstep, but with fire instead of sound would be good as a legendary action. That means that surrounding him or pinning him down is dangerous (up the damage of it too.)
Then I suggest finding one thing he's dangerous for, maybe its an ability where he psychically stuns opponents, or if he hits one target with both attacks they are in mortal danger (damage, effect, something).
Then he needs more hit points. Maybe an ability to heal or regen, otherwise he will be dead in 2 rounds if the party can nova him. Figure out how much damage your party can do, then make sure he lasts at least 6-8 rounds.
Benjamin Olson
Hero
I can't opine on CR, because I pay very little attention to such things (and frankly, unless this is intended for publication, CR is mostly academic and you should focus more on how the monster you went to all the trouble of designing serves your specific encounter needs). Unlike some people I actually think you're doing alright in terms of the attacks, since, with the Legendary actions (once you get legendary resistance properly away on its own) he's making 5 attacks per round, each of which does an average 17 damage (if he hits, which if he's going reckless he mostly will). So while I think maybe you could up the damage of the hits a little, I'd be careful on that front. If you plan to play into the reckless attacks I might up damage by just expanding his crit range.
The first problem is in range and mobility. This fiend should probably fly, teleport, and/or have a ranged attack option. As is he will get locked down and never meaningfully threaten most of the party. A party member who goes toe-to-toe with him will feel how this is a major fight where this guy can easily do 75+ damage to them a round, but it might not feel impactful for other players, who get to stand back and just chip away at the guy.
The second problem is in vulnerability. In order to make this guy scary you're going to want to attack recklessly, but if all attacks against him are at advantage an AC 17 enemy with 205 hit points is going to be short work for an appropriately leveled party (that doesn't fail the fear effect). You want them to win, of course, but you want this guy to go three rounds with them at least, and as is we're talking three rounds at most, if he's fighting solo. If the party mostly beats him on initiative, passes their Wisdom saves, and just all out attacks, he might be lucky to make it through 2 rounds. I'm not usually an advocate of just throwing more meat on an enemy, but given the reckless attacking he probably needs another hundred hit points to reliably put up a good fight, or else he needs minions or something.
This guy will slice and dice anyone who goes toe to toe with him, but he needs the mobility and staying power to spread that pain around for a few rounds to really be a satisfying foe.
The first problem is in range and mobility. This fiend should probably fly, teleport, and/or have a ranged attack option. As is he will get locked down and never meaningfully threaten most of the party. A party member who goes toe-to-toe with him will feel how this is a major fight where this guy can easily do 75+ damage to them a round, but it might not feel impactful for other players, who get to stand back and just chip away at the guy.
The second problem is in vulnerability. In order to make this guy scary you're going to want to attack recklessly, but if all attacks against him are at advantage an AC 17 enemy with 205 hit points is going to be short work for an appropriately leveled party (that doesn't fail the fear effect). You want them to win, of course, but you want this guy to go three rounds with them at least, and as is we're talking three rounds at most, if he's fighting solo. If the party mostly beats him on initiative, passes their Wisdom saves, and just all out attacks, he might be lucky to make it through 2 rounds. I'm not usually an advocate of just throwing more meat on an enemy, but given the reckless attacking he probably needs another hundred hit points to reliably put up a good fight, or else he needs minions or something.
This guy will slice and dice anyone who goes toe to toe with him, but he needs the mobility and staying power to spread that pain around for a few rounds to really be a satisfying foe.
