So other Classes for the PHB are dead and gone yes?
- Thread starter Scribe
- Start date
Undrave
Hero
More like they're not trying very hard >.>
Scribe
Legend
Yes. It really annoys me that we had the Mystic UA, but...nothing.
Undrave
Hero
And the Mystic UA was just a misguided mess. it was WAY too big. I don't think a class play test needs to be more than 1 or 2 subclass.
Mind of tempest
(he/him)
given how many sub-classes they will keep needing to make to sell for money I am surprised they do not just have an idea department combing the old texts, every culture and fantasy works just for ideas to put together so they have sufficient options to little down into the good ones.
I am technically qualified to have an opinion on asset development.
we had some dabbler classes but that does not fill the niche.
it was the mass of two classes at the smallest and needed to be more clear in goals.
remind me, to ask my therapist to try to convince me to write a script for a video on the topic as I am more articulate over voice than text.
No, it's fumes. It really feels more that they don't want to dig too hard into nostalgia in order to not seem basic. But most of their new concepts that aren't remakes or conversions barely scratch the crazy edge of the creativity sphere. This is due to most of the team being "new age" traditionalists and they mostly have the ideas they dream about already.
I don't know if the Mystic died on the vine specifically because it was too big and with too many subclasses. Rather, I think it was because what that playtest packet was really about was testing a whole new mechanical system that wasn't spellcasting. So all the "subclasses" were there to exemplify and show the different ways this new system could be used... and had it been incorporated... many of them might very well have become their own classes within this Psionics system, rather than just one Class with a half-dozen subclasses. The same way spellcasting has a whole bunch of different classes that use the Spells system.
But I think what ended up being the issue was that enough people just said in their survey responses that they didn't want a whole new mechanical system on the whole. The system was just too separate from what the game already had but which accomplished the same function. The idea of having a Spells system and a Disciplines system-- both of which had characters doing the same exact things in-game except the players had to use different mechanics to do so... was just not embraced. After all... if a PC is going to get stronger via Psionics with a game result that matches a PC getting stronger via magic... why do we need two separate mechanics systems to accomplish it?
And I think once WotC realized more people didn't want a whole new game system introduced into D&D... the Mystic went away. And in the years since then the argument has always been whether or not its worth making a Psion class that uses Spells, since those that hate that idea REALLY hate that idea. And as a result, it's probably just better to not bother with a Psion class at all. If most people don't care and might not buy/use psionics rules anyway... and the small contingent who would care, and who would absolutely HATE what you'd be selling... better off just not bothering and instead let a 3PP on DMs Guild bite the bullet and produce a Psionics system with one or more Classes for it.
But I think what ended up being the issue was that enough people just said in their survey responses that they didn't want a whole new mechanical system on the whole. The system was just too separate from what the game already had but which accomplished the same function. The idea of having a Spells system and a Disciplines system-- both of which had characters doing the same exact things in-game except the players had to use different mechanics to do so... was just not embraced. After all... if a PC is going to get stronger via Psionics with a game result that matches a PC getting stronger via magic... why do we need two separate mechanics systems to accomplish it?
And I think once WotC realized more people didn't want a whole new game system introduced into D&D... the Mystic went away. And in the years since then the argument has always been whether or not its worth making a Psion class that uses Spells, since those that hate that idea REALLY hate that idea. And as a result, it's probably just better to not bother with a Psion class at all. If most people don't care and might not buy/use psionics rules anyway... and the small contingent who would care, and who would absolutely HATE what you'd be selling... better off just not bothering and instead let a 3PP on DMs Guild bite the bullet and produce a Psionics system with one or more Classes for it.
Mind of tempest
(he/him)
that is depressing.
MichaelSomething
Legend
Why not just multi class Fighter with Bard?
Personally I expect the Warlord to make a return as a core class!
Bagpuss
Legend
Because it doesn't do what the Warlord did, and it also what it does do does it mainly through magic. Also it is multiclassing.
This is why you have 3rd Party Products. So you don't HAVE to be depressed.
What I find depressing is all the people who only think products produced by WotC are worth using, and rather than finding / using / enjoying a full psionic system for these past 5 years that someone has put a goodly amount of time into designing and playtesting... those people have not used psionics at all and have instead spent that time all po'd and complaining that WotC hasn't given them what they wanted.
Clint_L
Hero
I think they basically said that it was up to date enough that it doesn't need to be added to the PHB.
Scribe
Legend
Savage.
Clint_L
Hero
I hate psionics in D&D both in terms of flavour (too 70s soft sci-fi/pseudo-science) and execution (why do we need another system of magic just called by another name?). But mostly I hate them because they were the worst in AD&D, where they were just an insanely overpowered bonus that a few characters got because of a lucky dice roll, instantly making them twice as good as any other character in the party.
And that said, I wouldn't mind them in 5e, because not everything has to be things I like and clearly some folks, like the OP, really want them. Not in the updated PHB because they are so different from the fantasy archetypes that are the heart of the D&D brand, but in a source book for a specialized setting. Spelljammer would have been perfect, with its sci-fi vibe, but you could make a case for Planescape, which is coming out next year.
And that said, I wouldn't mind them in 5e, because not everything has to be things I like and clearly some folks, like the OP, really want them. Not in the updated PHB because they are so different from the fantasy archetypes that are the heart of the D&D brand, but in a source book for a specialized setting. Spelljammer would have been perfect, with its sci-fi vibe, but you could make a case for Planescape, which is coming out next year.
I really like the flavor of psionics, and want them included in our games, but I really respect your reasoning here.
(well maybe except holding a grudge since AD&D, 44 years ago....I kid I kid....
)
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Creating a series of update guides rather runs against their "this isn't a new edition" narrative.
It's a patch for D&D version 5.3.
Clint_L
Hero
No, you're right. It's totally unreasonable, but you know how it goes - formative years and all that. It's the same reason I am still unreasonably irritated by the old D&D cartoon: by the time it came out my friends and I were super judgmental teenagers who looked down our noses its "kiddie" version of D&D. I am definitely in the wrong, but that's emotions for ya.I really like the flavor of psionics, and want them included in our games, but I really respect your reasoning here.
(well maybe except holding a grudge since AD&D, 44 years ago....I kid I kid....
RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph
I just want to see real classes in the new D&D. Like, understandable classes that don't pigeonhole people and force them into neat stereotypes. That's why I just want the following four classes in the next D&D:
- Dwarf
- Elf
- Halfling
- Human
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