So sick of 2E fans bashing 3E

[JesterPoet]

Uggg... this is a rant, and may or may not be worth reading as such.

I was actually referred to as a 3tard today by old-school D&D/Hackmaster fans.

It has been my experience that people who still play 2e/1e and say that 3/3.5 is not "real D&D" are not only quite frequently real jerks, but also rarely have anything to back up their argument beyond "it doesn't feel like D&D"

I think the numbers speak for themselves... The fan base has moved, and, as such, 3E is real D&D. But I don't believe that has to supercede 2E as being D&D as well. But if I had to choose one or the other, I'd say the one with the bigger fanbase is the true victor... and I'm pretty sure that's not 2E.

Our argument ended today with one of the 2E fans claiming that 3E isn't working out and WoTC is in development of a non-compatible 4e system because of it. Of course he had an "inside source" that he could not divulge:

<him> Why else would WOTC already be working on a (non-compatible) 4th edition?
<JesterPoet> let's see your documented proof of that
<someone else> Are they really?
<him> Yes, someone else
<JesterPoet> people have been discussing that on ENWorld for ages now, and nobody knows for sure
<him> JP, I'm not at liberty to cite my sources, but they're accurate
<JesterPoet> BS
<JesterPoet> utter BS.
<him> Straight from the industry
<JesterPoet> much of ENWorld is the industry
<JesterPoet> game designers galore frequent those forums
<him> Screw ENWorkd
<him> I'm referring to internal discussions involving WOTC
<JesterPoet> right....
<him> Private licensing deals, that sort of thing
<JesterPoet> I take it they send an internal e-mail out to all the old 2E fans, whenever they plan on making a big change?
<him> ENWorld won't hear anything official until WOTC is ready to announce it
<JesterPoet> c'mon dude... be reasonable...
<JesterPoet> and you would then... gotcha.
<him> I am being reasonable. My contact asked that I not reveal the source


Uggg... this is what it is always like! I know there are exceptions. I know people like Dialgo can be rational... but that seems so rare. Am I the only one who deals with this crap?

What a waste of time that argument was.... why don't I ever learn?

 

[Krieg]

I think the numbers speak for themselves... The fan base has moved, and, as such, 3E is real D&D. But I don't believe that has to supercede 2E as being D&D as well. But if I had to choose one or the other, I'd say the one with the bigger fanbase is the true victor... and I'm pretty sure that's not 2E.

Ahh, the Brittany Spears argument.

It is popular therefore it must be good.

 

[Thanee]

What a waste of time that argument was.... why don't I ever learn?

Dunno.

3e > 2e (simple math )

Bye
Thanee

 

[MarkAHart]

I've encountered a similar mentality myself on multiple occasions. I was called several types of names for stating my positive views towards 3e...I have never attacked or bashed 1e or 2e (and have played and enjoyed both extensively), but now I play and enjoy 3e.

Ultimately, I think some people just feel compelled to pigeon hole people into "camps" and thus there are people who are "smart" and those who are "stoopid."

In my experience, every game system has strengths and weaknesses, and every game system can produce a fun experience. It would be nice if the people who felt it necessary to attack another person's preferences would devote their time to more useful pursuits.

 

[Ranger REG]

So, we're going back to separate dual-class (humans) and multi-class (nonhumans).

We're going back to separate class XP tables.

We're going back to nonweapon proficiencies system.

We're going back to THAC0 and "armor is better when number is negative."

We're going back to many Saving Throws stats (at least 5).

Gee, while we're at it, let's go back to 8-tracks and Intel 286 PC with 8K modems.

I have one question: Diaglo can be rational?

Just kidding.

 

[Kormydigar]

Uggg... this is a rant, and may or may not be worth reading as such.

I was actually referred to as a 3tard today by old-school D&D/Hackmaster fans.

It has been my experience that people who still play 2e/1e and say that 3/3.5 is not "real D&D" are not only quite frequently real jerks, but also rarely have anything to back up their argument beyond "it doesn't feel like D&D"

I think the numbers speak for themselves... The fan base has moved, and, as such, 3E is real D&D. But I don't believe that has to supercede 2E as being D&D as well. But if I had to choose one or the other, I'd say the one with the bigger fanbase is the true victor... and I'm pretty sure that's not 2E.

Our argument ended today with one of the 2E fans claiming that 3E isn't working out and WoTC is in development of a non-compatible 4e system because of it. Of course he had an "inside source" that he could not divulge:

<him> Why else would WOTC already be working on a (non-compatible) 4th edition?
<JesterPoet> let's see your documented proof of that
<someone else> Are they really?
<him> Yes, someone else
<JesterPoet> people have been discussing that on ENWorld for ages now, and nobody knows for sure
<him> JP, I'm not at liberty to cite my sources, but they're accurate
<JesterPoet> BS
<JesterPoet> utter BS.
<him> Straight from the industry
<JesterPoet> much of ENWorld is the industry
<JesterPoet> game designers galore frequent those forums
<him> Screw ENWorkd
<him> I'm referring to internal discussions involving WOTC
<JesterPoet> right....
<him> Private licensing deals, that sort of thing
<JesterPoet> I take it they send an internal e-mail out to all the old 2E fans, whenever they plan on making a big change?
<him> ENWorld won't hear anything official until WOTC is ready to announce it
<JesterPoet> c'mon dude... be reasonable...
<JesterPoet> and you would then... gotcha.
<him> I am being reasonable. My contact asked that I not reveal the source


Uggg... this is what it is always like! I know there are exceptions. I know people like Dialgo can be rational... but that seems so rare. Am I the only one who deals with this crap?

What a waste of time that argument was.... why don't I ever learn?

You are simply dealing with a jackass who keeps going because he knows he will get a reaction from you. Stop reacting, or caring about the comments and they will hopefully stop. I enjoy bashing 2nd edition and 3.X edition myself, the main exception being I tend to attack the system itself and not the people who play. No matter what systems a person likes, he or she has a right to play them without having to put up with that kind of crap.

 

[BOZ]

uh oh... he has a source, dammnit! it must be true!

 

[rogueattorney]

It has been my experience that people who still play 2e/1e and say that 3/3.5 is not "real D&D" are not only quite frequently real jerks, but also rarely have anything to back up their argument beyond "it doesn't feel like D&D"

It goes both ways. I've heard many fans of OOP editions called all sorts of things simply due to their preference to the older game - "old men", "living in the past", "only on a nostalgia trip", etc.

It's unfortunate. There are very significant differences between the various editions. It's quite natural that some will prefer one over the others. But that's just personal preference. There's no reason why people should be jerks over one gamer's choice of game. I mean it's not like knitters get in a huff about people who cross-stitch.

Now, I believe that fans of OOP versions have some perfectly legitimate reasons to be upset with first TSR, and later WoTC. But we really shouldn't take that out on people playing the new versions of the game.

R.A.

 

[Mr. Kaze]

It has been my experience that people who still play 2e/1e and say that 3/3.5 is not "real D&D"

Well duh it's not Real! D&D -- it's a fantasy role-playing game. Kind of not Real! by definition.

But abject sarcasm aside, do they run a homebrew campaign setting? Then they're not playing Real! D&D because it didn't come from the official D&D copyright holder. Do they play in Greyhawk or the Realms? Then they're not playing Real! D&D because they're not acknowledging the copyright owner's decision to evolve the game past wizards who can figure out how to change the universe but can't figure out how to wear chainmail.

For my part, I say that 3e makes more coherent sense than 2e generally did and to that end, I play 3e because there's less houseruling and homebrewing required to tell a coherent story.

Our argument ended today with one of the 2E fans claiming that 3E isn't working out and WoTC is in development of a non-compatible 4e system because of it.

Well duh they're working on 4e. Microsoft is working on Windows "Longhorn," you know -- lots of differences between that and the venerable old Windows 95. And you can't believe how many Windows 3.1 fans were annoyed when Windows 95 came along... You don't need a consipracy theory to tell you that you're not going to sell more copies of Office/Eberron than you do the OS/PHB. So of course they're working on 4e -- they wouldn't survive as a corporation if they weren't trying to milk a cash cow.

That said, I'd guess that 4e will probably be roughly compatible with 3.5e simply because WotC doesn't have enough money to go out and sell a whole new game to bunch of houseruling, homebrewing folks who view them (WotC) as corporate puppets just a few years (3-4) after releasing 3.5e -- I'm looking for another overhaul of the magic system with particular attention to Spells Per Day and Caster Level, official integration of Action Points, and bonus region/ancestor feats for everybody.

(Note, however, that Microsoft has entirely too much money and seems intent on spending it on re-marketing the Xbox2 -- which will also likely be a loss-leader that never catches up with itself -- despite what will almost certainly be no backwards compatibility due to an utter and complete vendor change in the hardware portion of the platform.)

So where am I going with this? Simple: spend your money on what you want to play. If 1e makes you happy and Pong runs great for you, fabulous -- but don't bemoan me my houseruled and homebrewed 3.5e and UT2004.

::Mr. Kaze (wonders why it seems that nobody trusts WotC to not only be an evil, soulless corporation but also gasp! to occasionally come up with enough good ideas to be worth buying a new book for...)

 

[Sargon]

Edition Bashing

This will continue to go on an on.

When 2nd edition came out you had people a saying it was great and others saying it sucked. Both sides bashing the other side.

Same thing happend when 3rd edition came out and even when 3.5 came out.

When 4th edition is released, and eventually it will be, there will be some people saying how 3.0/3.5 blew chunks and this is so much better, and some people thinking that 4th edition is the worst thing that has happend to D&D.

I think that people should just pick an edition they like and stick with and play it. I think it is ridiculous repeatedly bashing a game system, just for the fun of it. Technically the same people that are bashing any new edition of thier favorite rpg, were on the other side of the fence at one time.