So what goes in the player's book?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What should go in the Player's Handbook? This is a critical question, because in many ways, the PHB is the game of D&D. It's the bread and butter, the book every player has or uses, and sets the scope and tone for the rest of the game. I still think the PHB/DMG/MM is iconic to D&D and should be retained, vice going to an all-in-one sort of Basic/Advanced/Masters rulebook.

Here are my thoughts:

First: There's only one PHB. We shouldn't have to buy three books labelled "PHB" to get the core of the game. One PHB by name, and then we can get expansions/modules/flavor/fluff/splatbooks.

Second: The PHB should have the quality of a textbook, but is should not read like a textbook. It needs good art, good prose, and inspiring fluff, in addition to good organization. The 1E PHB got the prose right, but lacked organization; the 4E PHB was too sterile and clinical. We should have a book that's enjoyable to read & re-read as well as being accessible for use at the game table.

Third: Digital capability. Besides OGL/SRD (more later), I'd like a digital format to load on a laptop or tablet to be *free* with purchase of PHB.

These things should be in the PHB:

(1) What is D&D? Explain it and how it's played. Include an example of play for newcomers.

(2) How to make a character. Attributes, etc.

(3) How to play. Basic rules (d20+mods, etc). Combat rules. Exploration.

(4) Core races. I vote: human, dwarf, elf (happy with elf/eladrin split, but YMMV), halfling, half-elf, half-orc. Gnomes ... I hate them with a passion but perhaps they can stay.

(5) Core classes. I vote: fighter, ranger, paladin, barbarian, cleric, druid, wizard, bard, rogue, some alt-arcane class (sorcerer/warlock), plus rules for multi-classing or otherwise mixing class attributes.

(6) Core character mechanics. Whether this is skills & feats, or powers, or some other variation. Plus alignment. Item & spell creation rules should be in here, too.

(7) Magic/spells/rituals. Doesn't need to be everything, but enough to support the core classes for the "core experience" of 1-10 or 1-20 levels.

(8) Equipment. Basic adventuring equipment, plus some basic magic items (less than the 4E PHB, though)

(9) All of the above in an OGL SRD, placed online, and not in a firewalled pay-to-play location.

These things should NOT go in the PHB.

(1) Every race/class/feat/spell ever invented in D&D. Lots of room later for modular expansions.

(2) Alternate systems. The core should be the building blocks, but put the specialty bricks in "Unearthed Arcana" expansions.

(3) Flavor-specific races/classes/roles -- dragonboobs, thieflings, psions, monks, oriental adventures, swordmages and swashbucklers, etc.

(4) Epic play. This deserves its own expansion module.

(5) All categories and powers of magic items. Leave a range of mystery and wonder for the DM to provide.

(6) Setting-specific information. A few examples of gods might be OK, depending on whether we have domains for clerics or the like. Leave this for the DM.

(7) Psionics.

This probably sounds a lot like the 3E PHB content and organization, which is intentional -- though there are specific elements of that era PHB that I'd change, I think it struck the best balance of the PHBs published to date.

Discuss. What do you want to see?

 

[mkill]

I want a book that I can give my nephew for Christmas and say: This is D&D, have fun with your friends. In short, it needs to be a complete collection of all information needed to play the game. This includes a lot of stuff that is traditionally in the DMG, Monster Manuals or setting books.

The place where I would cut most compared to 4th ed are class description. In 4th ed, page 50 all the way through page 175 are classes, and that means powers over powers over powers. Don't get me wrong, I love powers, but do you need more than 80 (I counted once) exclusive powers for each and every class? Times eight?

Roll Warlord into Fighter, give the Paladin access to Cleric spells, add the Druid and give the Ranger access to his spells, replace the Warlock by the Sorcerer and let him share spells with the Wizard. Replace some of the powers for Figher and Rogue by static bonuses.

Make powers multileveled, i.e. instead of replacing Fireball at higher levels, you can learn an improved version instead.

I would also cut space by removing epic tier, as this is much better in a dedicated splatbook anyway.

I would also go back to smaller font and 3 column text (rather than 2) as in 3rd edition to get more stuff in.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

So is there room for an all-in-one introductory product or stepped approach (ala Basic -- levels 1-5 or 1-10 with all monsters and DMG material) and a PHB/DMG/MM approach, or must it be an either/or decision?

I'd personally like to see the focus on the PHB/DMG/MM model with just an intro product as a gateway experience, but I can see the attraction of an all-in-one set of stepped products. Three books that have everything needed to play in each one, just tailored for ddifferent levels of play. Though that forks this dicsussion a bit, which I'd intended to be PHB-concept specific.

 

[jodyjohnson]

For the PHB basically just the elements that have been in every PHB.

How to play
How to make a character
The basic spells, powers, and combat abilities
Enough combat rules to play
A rough presentation of skills
A rough presentation of exploration and role play.

Everything else goes in a very high page count DMG except creatures.

Creatures get basic 3e/4e stat blocks, plus 2e extra-combat ecology and abilities not detailed in the stat blocks.

 

[tuxgeo]

I want a book that I can give my nephew for Christmas and say: This is D&D, have fun with your friends. In short, it needs to be a complete collection of all information needed to play the game. This includes a lot of stuff that is traditionally in the DMG, Monster Manuals or setting books.
< snip >

I would think that a sufficiently well-designed Starter Set would accomplish that better than trying to stuff the whole game into the PHB. A really great Starter Set would contain the DM's information in a separate binding from the players' information, while still including both in the same Christmas present product.

 

[Alikar]

Honestly I think only the first 10 levels should be in the PHB. Give me twice as many Core classes.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree a lot with your opinions.

First: There's only one PHB. We shouldn't have to buy three books labelled "PHB" to get the core of the game. One PHB by name, and then we can get expansions/modules/flavor/fluff/splatbooks.

Agree completely.

Second: The PHB should have the quality of a textbook, but is should not read like a textbook. It needs good art, good prose, and inspiring fluff, in addition to good organization. The 1E PHB got the prose right, but lacked organization; the 4E PHB was too sterile and clinical. We should have a book that's enjoyable to read & re-read as well as being accessible for use at the game table.

Agree as long as the fluff is generic enough that it would work in most traditional settings. The usual fluff about elves being long-living creatures with ties to the nature and harboring magical secrets is OK to capture the attention on newcomers, but if going too much into the specifics (such as e.g. saying who exactly is the king of elves, or which is their capital city) should be avoided. It's ok to mention names of famous elves characters from books, movies and also D&D settings alike, but at examples without implying that they must exist in your game.

Third: Digital capability. Besides OGL/SRD (more later), I'd like a digital format to load on a laptop or tablet to be *free* with purchase of PHB.

I can't comment on this...

These things should be in the PHB:(4) Core races. I vote: human, dwarf, elf (happy with elf/eladrin split, but YMMV), halfling, half-elf, half-orc. Gnomes ... I hate them with a passion but perhaps they can stay.

(5) Core classes. I vote: fighter, ranger, paladin, barbarian, cleric, druid, wizard, bard, rogue, some alt-arcane class (sorcerer/warlock), plus rules for multi-classing or otherwise mixing class attributes.

(6) Core character mechanics. Whether this is skills & feats, or powers, or some other variation. Plus alignment. Item & spell creation rules should be in here, too.

...

(8) Equipment. Basic adventuring equipment, plus some basic magic items (less than the 4E PHB, though)

(I skipped point 9, and all points to which I agree)

Points 4 and 5, I'd accept even less classes and races, Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Rogue and Human/Elf/Dwarf/Halfling are enough for me. These are also the most stable concepts across almost various setting.

Point 6, big NO to spell creation rules (IMXP they are extremely rarely used, given the plethora of spells published) and small NO to item creation rules. I think a lot of gaming groups don't bother with creating non-magical items, so perhaps it could be moved to the DMG. And about creating magical items, it should be moved to the DMG so that everything is under DM's control more.

Point 8, it all depends on which "basic" magic items will be included. The problem is not trivial... even being able to easily make scrolls and wands in 3ed had huge strategic implications. Maybe if all magic item creation rules are moved to the DMG, it is then possible to put a bunch of magic items on the PHB without fear (if by default the characters will have to find them, not make them). Certainly, simple stuff like healing potions of various kind and minor protective trinkets can be in the equipment section of the PHB.

These things should NOT go in the PHB.
(2) Alternate systems. The core should be the building blocks, but put the specialty bricks in "Unearthed Arcana" expansions.

Agree on everything else, but point 2 may depend on how the concept of "modularity" will be really implemented.

I still leave the door open for some rules option/module that increase the details of combat, for example with more differentiations of actions by type. This could be in the PHB if it is believed that quite a lot of gaming groups will end up using it, so that every player can study such rules carefully from his/her own PHB.

A similar thing can happen e.g. on battlemat rules, in case the game wants to support both a minis-based combat and a mapless, minisless combat. Tho I doubt this will be the case, if it is then both versions should be available to all players in the PHB.

(EDIT) Another example could be the skill system. Should it work like 3ed where most of the times you need to roleplay + roll once? Should it work like 4ed skill challenges? It's possible that 5ed will have 2 or even more options all of which are "default", so as not to displease anyone. In this case, they should all be in the PHB of course.

 

[Howndawg]

Personaly, I would like to see a four book set.

First, a basic rules handbook, four races, four classes, ten levels, no optional rules, something that new players can jump right into without having to think about any complex options.

This will be followed by the conventional trilogy. Which will add some of the more detailed rules options. The PHB will have more races and classes, possibly subclasses plus detailed skill and feat sections. The DMG will have campaign options, like tech level and magic item availability. The MM will just have a boatload of monsters, with perhaps customization options.

After this, I would like books that cover more esoteric subjects, like psionics, steamtech, dark magic, kung fu, epic play, apotheosis, not to mention the various splatbooks.

 

[Evenglare]

My reply to the question in the title.

Not magic items.

That is all.

 

[Alikar]

Personaly, I would like to see a four book set.

First, a basic rules handbook, four races, four classes, ten levels, no optional rules, something that new players can jump right into without having to think about any complex options.

This will be followed by the conventional trilogy. Which will add some of the more detailed rules options. The PHB will have more races and classes, possibly subclasses plus detailed skill and feat sections. The DMG will have campaign options, like tech level and magic item availability. The MM will just have a boatload of monsters, with perhaps customization options.

After this, I would like books that cover more esoteric subjects, like psionics, steamtech, dark magic, kung fu, epic play, apotheosis, not to mention the various splatbooks.

This would be wonderful.