So... What have you heard about the Dungeons & Dragons Online game?

[Gorrstagg]

I know exactly what I am talking about. The game is being designed with twitch dodge and attacks as part of the combat system, in real time.

It's commented on in the IGN insider interviews and on the latest Gamespot E3 pre-review.

This is supposedly to avoid the "monotony" of turn based attacks in an MMORPG. Maybe so - but it's still twitch combat in D&D - all the same.

... I am not a fan of twitch combat being introduced into D&D. At all. Ever...

Heya Steel Wind,

I did watch the IGN videos, and I also have read how they discuss the "Twitch" concerns your presenting.

You will not have unlimited speed to move away, that is something they have a lot of adjustability on. You will not automatically get away. This move and avoid an attack is ... just like D&D.. move out of the way.. don't stand there and get hit over and over again. Which if you've played any other MMO'.. they give this really large attack range for mobs, and as you run away, they can still hit you.. and hit you.. and hit you.

But.. here.. they are giving you the ability to have your movement mean something. But.. they have server side redundancies built in. With an upto a full second of correction on the part of the mobs. So that way, it can react more closely to what YOU do. If it swings, and your not there, that animation isn't gone through ... and the monster will move on after you. Until it can hit you. Sure you can try to dodge.. but..

These guys aren't new to the MMO scene bud. They've actually got 2 live games going on right now. AC 1 & 2. (Which was initially one of my concerns about Turbine getting the game. But now.. I'm happy they did.)

Here's my question to you Steelwind. How is this game more twitch like than any other MMO out on the market? Just because you can run, and quick turn and shoot.. the game doesn't automatically assume you hit. It actually then applies modifiers and rolls a d20 to see if you actually hit.. and did damage.

My point.. they decided that they couldn't effectively and realistically have people stand around for 6 seconds of real time, so you can resolve your "Action". To do that would be ... a turn based game. And they wanted to make the game flow more enjoyably. That is, remove 6 second rounds. Present it in real time. But the game.. isn't going to be about how good everyone is against everyone else. In short.. it doesn't matter. Your not competing against anyone but yourself. And if you don't think you've got the skills to move around.. well maybe you don't. Maybe you would feel more comfortable, just moving up and hitting the attack button. And there is nothing stopping you from doing this. The point.. they are trying to make the game more interactive. Instead of someone moving around with one hand, while eating cheesy poofs with another. They've stated as much with the concept of in other MMO's you can just stop somewhere and go make a sandwich, in other MMO's and not have to worry about it. Here.. your going to be in an adventure that ... reacts to you as well. Fun fun!

If you think this "Twitch" action where you actually ... you know do something other than stand around after pressing attack, Well then honestly. This game isn't going to be for you. For whatever reason, you don't think live action play is going to be good. That's on you bro. And no one can convince you otherwise. But.. they aren't making this game for the typical MMO'er.. they are making it for D&D players. And want us to think on our feet.. to not get into the typical rut of ... killing something for 5 hours.. to level up.

I am very happy to see them realize this. Oh.. and don't forget this part.. they have David Eckelberry working on the game with them.. almost all of their staff are old D&D players.. and WOTC have approved everything that is going on in the game. So.. I guess it's an official product. Like it or not.

Go read the developer's comments from Turbine.

The separately instanced play areas are already in Guild Wars and were announced by Arena 3 years ago. Not saying that it's not cool - but it not groundbreaking either.

Yes.. and it was potentially innovative there when it was mentioned.. but the focus of that game.. is PvP. The focus of this game.. is.. *drum roll*

Playing D&D with your friends online. And the normal gaming session doesn't devolve down to, multiple gaming groups suddenly meeting each other and fighting it out.. it's simply.. about the adventure.

I personally think it is cool that they went with the smaller more personal focus on the game, and are backing it up with the graphics and artwork to boot. I think Guild Wars looks like poo. Does our personal esthetical concerns really matter? Not a whole lot between you and I.

Just one last note.. as far as Twitch play is concerned. This game isn't Half-life, or Doom or Unreal Tournament. Those are twitch games. This game.. just uses real time action.

 

[WayneLigon]

Just one last note.. as far as Twitch play is concerned. This game isn't Half-life, or Doom or Unreal Tournament. Those are twitch games. This game.. just uses real time action.

I guess if it works like WoW works and not like a true twitch game (which, with server lag, I would think would be technically impossible to do) I'll go for it.

WoW isn't really a turn-based system but it isn't totally real-time, either. if I do nothing, the monster still hits and attacks. At the same time, with the cool-down mechanics of how your abilities work, it doesn't require you to have very fast reflexes at all. Good thing, because my hand-eye coordination is very bad. I still have time to make choices about what combat ability to use.

I wasn't very happy with the spellcaster changes, though I see why they had to make them. That kind of major change, though, is probably going to ripple through every other aspect of the game and when that ripple is done I'm afraid it really won't play very much like D&D at all. If you don't have the D&D-like play experience, I wonder what else they'll have that will draw people and distinquish it? The screen shots do look nice, and if they have better avatar customization (esp if it's on par with City of Heroes), then I'll at least give it a shot.

 

[Henry]

Moved to the Software and Computers forum.

In the meantime, let's also try to be a little more considerate of one another. I've noticed some tones getting kinda harsh, and we're all here to discuss something we have an opinion about, so let's not come any closer to outright insults? Thanks to all.

 

[Piratecat]

I was at Turbine's job fair the other week, and they showed game demos. I'm very, very impressed.

 

[EricNoah]

My thoughts...

1) The entire reason WotC did the setting search, which ultimately lead to Eberron, was to create a new setting that they could turn not just into a pen-and-paper RPG campaign setting product, but also computer rpg products. So Eberron as the setting shouldn't have been much of a surprise to anyone. Whether you like it or not is another issue entirely. I personally do and am eager to explore its reaches in the computer RPG version.

2) The reason we have to "take turns" in a pen-and-paper RPG is because of its inherent nature -- it doesn't work to have everyone at the table just yell whatever they're going to do at whatever time. The computer, by contrast, can juggle all of this stuff and allow us to see the results instantly. Expecting a pen-and-paper RPG experience in a real-time 3D computer RPG is, well, not very realistic. I would be disappointed if I couldn't essentially do what I wanted, when I wanted, within the scope of a virtual world and its rules. So I do expect it to be somewhat twitchy in that sense.

3) Saw some screenshots recently, they looked nice, but I couldn't get a sense of if it's all that much different from Everquest or other games like that.

 

[Storyteller01]

Moved to the Software and Computers forum.

We have one of those?? o.0'

In the meantime, let's also try to be a little more considerate of one another. I've noticed some tones getting kinda harsh, and we're all here to discuss something we have an opinion about, so let's not come any closer to outright insults? Thanks to all.

Agreed. I'm no saint, but let's keep it friendly. It's just a game!

 

[EPRock]

I have beta tested some of Turbines Games, and still play one occiasionally.

I have chatted with a few of the developers before who have been moved to the DND online, I would hope that I if I could work in the US that I would be able to Work at Turbine Entertainment.

Hope I get in the DDO Beta

 

[Lasher Dragon]

D&D Online could be the best thing since sliced bread, but I won't get it. I will not pay a monthly fee for a game, period. Reason? One month I may play the game 10 hours a day, until my wife is ready to strangle me with the mouse cord; the next month I might only play it for a couple hours. Now, if they would institute a "pay as you play" type of setup, I might be interested.

 

[Spatula]

I don't understand why every developer who gets ahold of D&D has to screw it up save and except for BioWare.

You'd think the "stick to the rules - put in a good story" model of developing an iconic property like D&D might make some sense.

BioWare has stuck to the D&D rules in its games?

The only software company to get D&D "right" was SSI.

 

[takyris]

Bummer about the no-shifters thing. I like shifters.

But I can understand how that would have been an absolute killer to script. "Okay, now we need a script for how the guard acts if he sees you pretending to be Lord Noordis after ANOTHER shifter pretending to be Lord Noordis has already entered the building, and can we combine that with the script for if you currently look like Ordinary Guard? No, two separate scripts? Alrighty, then. Shifters are out."