So what's gold gonna be for?

[Rechan]

I dunno. At minimum, "bribes" seem pretty solidly in the "help" column. They're just plot bonuses instead of attack + damage bonuses.

Together with a Swashbuckling Card type of mechanic, wealth / fame / whatever could become a cool mechanic.

Sure, it's nice if you're in a type of campaign where that sort've thing is useful. Not so much when you're traveling the planes or going after that Evil Lich or Nefarious Blackguard.

Right now, Gold only facilitates "Buy magical items to facilitate combat". That only suits one style of campaign - thus, it's unsatisfactory to other styles. But if it flipped back to the 2e "You really just spend it on non-adventure related stuff" or "Hey now you can buy a Castle", to parties who have no intentions of buying castles, there goes the whole point of treasure. My ascetic monk or down-to-earth druid is going to scoff at fancy clothes and pretty boats. And a lawful good character isn't going to be doing a lot of bribing.

In other words, if gold is only there to facilitate one type of campaign style, I will not be happy.

 

[Nifft]

Sure, it's nice if you're in a type of campaign where that sort've thing is useful. Not so much when you're traveling the planes or going after that Evil Lich or Nefarious Blackguard.

I would disagree -- when my PCs travel the planes, they find border guards, tariffs, taxes and tolls all over the place -- particularly the more Lawful of the Evil planes.

They've bribed Yugoloth mercs to abandon their current masters en route to killing those masters.

Evil minions are exactly the kind who love bribes most! IMHO, of course.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rechan]

I would disagree -- when my PCs travel the planes, they find border guards, tariffs, taxes and tolls all over the place -- particularly the more Lawful of the Evil planes.

That's nice, but again, only applies to those planes.

 

[WyzardWhately]

My ascetic monk or down-to-earth druid is going to scoff at fancy clothes and pretty boats. And a lawful good character isn't going to be doing a lot of bribing.

So...they don't care about the gold and gems. Devise other motivations, it shouldn't be that hard. I've played plenty of characters like that. What's the problem?

 

[Rechan]

So...they don't care about the gold and gems. Devise other motivations, it shouldn't be that hard. I've played plenty of characters like that. What's the problem?

If Gold is built into the game as a Reward and a resource, and the characters have no use for that reward and resource, then they are impaired.

What happens to my warforged artificer (who doesn't want food or fancy clothes), whose sole reason for adventuring is so he has the cash to creating new and better magical items and research? I say that many "Classic Archemage style" wizards don't generally have lots of bling or fancy parties.

So building the wealth rules just for one campaign style, like it is now, imo is bad. Wealth = prestige is just gold = roleplaying enhancement. It's just as bad as 3e: wealth = combat enhancement.

 

[Nifft]

That's nice, but again, only applies to those planes.

Wait, again? Your point was it doesn't apply to planes. Or hunting bad guys. I'm countering exactly (and only) those two points. So yes, my previous point only applies to a limited subset of situations. Because those were the ones you thought were impossible.

Is that really your final answer?

- - -

Our conversation from my point of view:

Me: I think it could be used for A, B and C.
Rechan: It's nice, but doesn't apply to situation X or Y.
Me: In my experience, B did indeed apply to situations X and Y, and here's how...
Rechan: That's nice, but only applies to X and Y.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rechan]

Wait, again? Your point was it doesn't apply to planes. Or hunting bad guys. I'm countering exactly (and only) those two points. So yes, my previous point only applies to a limited subset of situations. Because those were the ones you thought were impossible.

Except that your example only applies to a SUBSET of planes. Is that really your final answer?

So allow me to change the conversation from My point of view:

You I think it could be useful for A, B, and C.
Me That's nice, but it doesn't apply to situations X or Y.
You No, it applies to those situations! Like when it's really sunny in X, or on Sundays at 3pm for Y.
Me That's great. Until it's partially cloudy, rainy, or night time with X, or for Y any other day but Sunday at 3pm.

I'm sorry that I didn't declare you the winner because you pointed out a very limited situation where wealth could apply to my complaint, Nifft.

 

[Nifft]

Except that your example only applies to a SUBSET of planes. Is that really your final answer?

Not at all. Tolls apply on all Lawful planes; bribes work well on all Chaotic planes. Good planes like donations; Evil planes like tribute. Everyone wants money. (For proof of this, see every planar ally spell.)

I'm sorry that I didn't declare you the winner because you pointed out a very limited situation where wealth could apply to my complaint, Nifft.

Well, now you can rectify that. Or maybe come up with some situations that aren't "3pm on a Tuesday".

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rechan]

Not at all. Tolls apply on all Lawful planes; bribes work well on all Chaotic planes. Good planes like donations; Evil planes like tribute. Everyone wants money. (For proof of this, see every planar ally spell.)

I just don't see it working out that way on a fourth of the planes, let alone all. Especially when, at levels where you can access the planes, you're teleporting everywhere, you don't need roads.

And unless there's a specific sidebar under "Shadowfell Toll road" or "Feywild Taxes", or "Elemental Chaos Tarrif", I don't see it playing out that way, Niffft.

You're also forgetting the fact that Lawful good PCs might not want to give any money to evil. That's letting evil benefit from you by giving them Your money that they can further their evil with. I'd definitely kick a Paladin's alignment in the sack if he just said "Here Mr Evil Fiend, take this money and go away."

My impression from the planar ally spell is that the GP represents an offering appropriate to the being summoned. I do not believe that all planar entities have use for a shiny metal from the material plane. The same reason why scribing scrolls cost GP to make - you're not just throwing gold at the paper and it evaporates, you have to buy special, magically treated inks and appropriate paper etc etc. It's material.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Really? My players in 2E, and 1E, spent it on building temples, castles, MAnors, towns, even a city or two.

I've already said wargame stuff was part of 1st edition. If you guys carried it over to 2nd edition, great for you. MANY D&D players do not want to manage an army. If they did, I'd suspect they'd be playing a wargame, where the primary point is army unit management rather than a game where the primary purpose is rp'ing a single individual.

I have one player who is really into that sort of political/empire building stuff. The other 4 are bored to tears when he goes shopping for drapes and spends hours poring over militia statistics, and just want to get back to kicking ass, solving mysteries and well... adventuring. I try and accommodate him somewhat, but adventuring is why I play and run D&D... not to simulate a turn based strategy game (which video games do better anyways). I suspect they are hardly alone. Taking away practical benefits of wealth crams this style down everyone's throats.