So what's gold gonna be for?

[JoeGKushner]

Gold isn't for anything. It doesn't exist in Lord of the Rings type games. In Conan type games it serves as a motivator. The PCs start off the adventure poor. DM dangles a great treasure in front of their noises so they go down a dungeon or whatever to get it. After the adventure is over they spend it all on ale and whores. There must be a game contract that no one will spend their money on anything remotely useful.

I'd go so far as to say it doesn't appear in most fiction of the day.

Elric, Hawkmoon, or other Eternal Champion bits? Nope.

Motivator for Farfd an d Grey Mouser but not actually used once possessed/lost?

Even in most books that are modern like Wheel of Time or Shanara, actual gold use is rare.

That's because it's pretty boring in and of itself. It has no purpose.

 

[howandwhy99]

Gold = gourmet food, lavish services, custom-built equipment, manses, yachts, servants, the best of the best the land has to offer.

It also means power, influence, bribery, titles, land, organizations, armies, navies, sages, universities, cathedrals, kingships, and all that money can do for you as in our world.

 

[A'koss]

Well, given that Mearls is part of the design team...

Having run an IH game for a while, I actually am much, much happier when wealth doesn't need to be spent on personal augmentation, for several reasons:

1) You can create more realistic economies. Warrior humanoids don't have to have treasure beyond their weapons, armor, and equipment; animals and unintelligent monsters don't need any possessions whatsoever, and PCs and NPCs alike need only as much money as required to transact in goods and services in the quasi-historic manner of a fantasy realm.

2) You can play any genre of fantasy you like without warping balance. Want a Conan-style game where the PCs amass huge fortunes and start the next session broke? An LotR campaign where money is simply irrelevant in th context of larger conflicts? A post-apocalyptic savage world setting in which there's basically no minted coin whatsoever and the most prized possessions are clean water and solid food? All possible and easy.

3) PCs can actually USE their money to drive the campaign! Wealth feats are a partial implementation of this in IH, but investment in a merchant coster, purchase of a ship, or setting up a realm or stronghold can be BIG campaign drivers. One of the PCs in my current campaign is a merchant-tinkerer of Gond (FR) who is adventuring in part to amass a fortune to return to his native island of Lantan for a life of ease, but also to fund his own workshop wherein he plans to create a variety of constructs and other techno-magical devices. Another PC (a noble of Waterdeep) might gain fortunes and glory for his family. And so on.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on it as well. I am really curious now to see just how much in the way of magic items WotC does plan on keeping around. With class-based AC bonuses, seemingly high Save Defenses, Bo9S style manuevers, at will and per encounter abilities, traits and so on it sounds like you could get away with running a "no magic" game a la IH or with just a small tweak here and a nudge there.

On the other hand though we've already heard that there's +x wands in the game and with all of their talk about keeping all the math in check from from low level to epic I wonder what assumptions they have about the gear you'll have at various levels...

 

[Nifft]

I wonder what assumptions they have about the gear you'll have at various levels...

I hope none.

The value of "level" as short-hand for character prowess is severely undermined in 3e by this assumption.

Cheers, -- N

 

[M.L. Martin]

I hope none.

The value of "level" as short-hand for character prowess is severely undermined in 3e by this assumption.

Cheers, -- N

On the other hand, guidelines as to maximums (and to some extent, minimums) could be most helpful to keep levels useful for that very purpose by not throwing off the umbers.

Given the few hints we've seen so far, my guess is that the equipment bonuses to 'key stats' (attacks, defenses, etc.) should be around the Level/5 range, and magic will be more useful for horizontal expansion--adding new capabilities--than addition.

 

[Nifft]

On the other hand, guidelines as to maximums (and to some extent, minimums) could be most helpful to keep levels useful for that very purpose by not throwing off the umbers.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.

Given the few hints we've seen so far, my guess is that the equipment bonuses to 'key stats' (attacks, defenses, etc.) should be around the Level/5 range, and magic will be more useful for horizontal expansion--adding new capabilities--than addition.

Really? That'd be nice, but remember... +6 Wand.

Cheers, -- N

 

[M.L. Martin]

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.

Sorry about that; I'm not sure i'm quite awake yet.

Basically, some guidelines on what magic items a PC should have at a given level should be included just to keep from giving them too much too soon and thus exceeding the expected range of numbers with magic, throwing off the whole level system. This applies to minimums as well, but to a lesser degree.

Really? That'd be nice, but remember... +6 Wand.

Cheers, -- N

That's part of what I'm basing my hope on--that +6 wand fits in nicely if it's the kind of thing you're using at the high-end of the epic range, say levels 27-30. Wishful thinking on my part, to some degree, but remember the design notes for the Magic Item Compendium, where they point out how ubiquitous and comparatively boring the 'Big Six' were?

 

[Rechan]

It also means power, influence, bribery, titles, land, organizations, armies, navies, sages, universities, cathedrals, kingships, and all that money can do for you as in our world.

So in other words, frills that don't help you when you're an adventurer.

 

[Nifft]

So in other words, frills that don't help you when you're an adventurer.

I dunno. At minimum, "bribes" seem pretty solidly in the "help" column. They're just plot bonuses instead of attack + damage bonuses.

Together with a Swashbuckling Card type of mechanic, wealth / fame / whatever could become a cool mechanic.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Basically, some guidelines on what magic items a PC should have at a given level should be included just to keep from giving them too much too soon and thus exceeding the expected range of numbers with magic, throwing off the whole level system. This applies to minimums as well, but to a lesser degree.

Here's the thing, though: if you really have expected minimum stat bonus items at various levels, why not just build those in to the levels directly?

What do you gain by being able to choose between cool yet sucky items and boring yet effective items? Why force players to choose?

I'd much rather see a system like Conan (or to a lesser degree SW Saga) where PCs gain more stat boosts over time, and don't ever get items which directly affect stats.

MIC items sound cool -- I don't have that book myself, but what I've seen of it is nifty.

Cheers, -- N