D&D 5E (2014) So Where my Witches at?

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Now you need a Blue Witch that uses psionics.

I always thought psionics was more connected to purple than blue.

 

[Zaukrie]

The biggest impediment to a witch type class is that most magic using classes can do almost everyting......there is not much to really differentiate the classes, imo. A game where a wizard, sorcerer, witch, psion, etc had really distinct spells and abilities would make it more viable. At this point, a witch is a warlock in 5e, at least for me.

Gygax' Mythus game is an example of a game where different spellcasters had vastly different spells.....

There have been some good witch classes/books over the years for D&D, but I've only used one as an NPC....

 

[Imaculata]

I would like to see a witch class do things that the other classes cannot. I think there is plenty of room given the roles that already exist in 5e, for a class with a new role.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I would like to see a witch class do things that the other classes cannot. I think there is plenty of room given the roles that already exist in 5e, for a class with a new role.

can you define what that is however?

 

[Guest 6801328]

I would like to see a witch class do things that the other classes cannot. I think there is plenty of room given the roles that already exist in 5e, for a class with a new role.

Aye, there's the rub. And the question is, are those "things that the other classes cannot" do mechanical or flavorful? In some ways this is the psionics debate, right? The spellcasting system can be refluffed for psionics, but many posters felt that if that's all it is then it's not really psionics.

So maybe, to pick an example, Witches derive their powers by befriending/manipulating some kinds of spirits (or demons or whatever). That's the fluff. What's the mechanics? Spell slots?

Or we could come at it from the opposite direction. Start with some kind of design idea....maybe "no spell slots, only cantrips and invocations". Then let's apply that to a Witch class.

But...is that mechanic really Witch-like, or are we hoping that it eventually becomes Witch-like because people get used to those rules?

As an example, when I came back to D&D after skipping 3e and 4e, I discovered...much to my surprise...that people felt a Warlock class had to have "eldritch blast". It was so iconic as to be a requirement. Without eldritch blast, it wasn't a Warlock. This struck me as totally arbitrary and asinine and not even remotely related to the theme of "deriving powers through a pact with a powerful patron". Really just another blast spell with some fluff. Some random demon can grant this power to its warlock minions, but not to its own priests? So all the gods and demons and extra-planar beings and fey lords and everybody else just kind of agree...maybe at the annual "Pan Planar Conference for Might Beings"...to only give this ability to a certain class of followers? Maybe as some kind of running gag? It's dumb. But, there you have it.

So maybe we should stop worrying about what the true essence of a Witch is. All that's needed is some interesting new mechanics that would be fun to play, some fluff to make those mechanics fit various witchy archetypes, a few subclasses to build out those archetypes, add to the cauldron, stir, let simmer for a couple years, and badda-bing-badda-boom....iconic Witch class.

 

[Imaculata]

So maybe we should stop worrying about what the true essence of a Witch is. All that's needed is some interesting new mechanics that would be fun to play, some fluff to make those mechanics fit various witchy archetypes, a few subclasses to build out those archetypes, add to the cauldron, stir, let simmer for a couple years, and badda-bing-badda-boom....iconic Witch class.

Agreed. Personally, hexes/curses, along with some form of area control could be interesting. I'd like the witch to not be just another healer, but a powerful aid in combat that helps improve what the other classes do (or some sort of combos).

 

[Shardstone]

Give me about a week and I'll post my "Witch Class" response to this thread as a google doc. Won't be 100% balanced the first pass, but pretty sure I can make something that hits a lot of "ideas" here while proving that it "deserves" to be its own class.

 

[Mecheon]

I don't remember seeing anyone post this link in the thread so far, but once again we can look to our old friend Kibbletasty for covering this concept. They have created a class (Occultist) and subclass (Witch) that could possibly serve people's needs:

While I do like ol' Kibble's stuff, the problem I have is there's been stand-alone Witch classes for yonks and I think it does have its own design space. A quick search gets me at least 5 of them, two of which I know are fairly well liked and the rest I haven't had much interaction with (but seem to have good reviews)

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Agreed. Personally, hexes/curses, along with some form of area control could be interesting. I'd like the witch to not be just another healer, but a powerful aid in combat that helps improve what the other classes do (or some sort of combos).

I built this into my homebrew Occultist class. There's an "Unearthly Path" that you choose at level 2, which is basically your Pact Boon, but it determines a bit more than a Pact Boon does. There's the Black Path, Grey Path, and White Path, which determines what playstyle your character is. Black Magic practitioners hex and curse enemies, Grey Path practitioners ward and protect themselves, and White Path practitioners heal and protect allies.

Later, Occultists get "Binding Charms", which are separated into 3 categories: Malisons (Black Path), Wards (Grey Path), and Favors (White Path). They're essentially Eldritch Invocations that are determined by your Unearthly Path and can allow you to curse others, ward yourself, or heal/protect others.

That would fill the stereotypical evil witch (Wicked Witch of the West), allow for a good witch (Glenda), and neutral witches.

 

[Remathilis]

While I do like ol' Kibble's stuff, the problem I have is there's been stand-alone Witch classes for yonks and I think it does have its own design space. A quick search gets me at least 5 of them, two of which I know are fairly well liked and the rest I haven't had much interaction with (but seem to have good reviews)

Yeah there is an abundance of takes from other designers. I guess I would've liked WotC's official stamp of approval, but I'm pretty sure that there is a good 3pp version or two or there.