Social skills in D&D: checks or role-playing?

[Kahuna Burger]

I should be getting tons of inside info with my Gather Information check and gaining the trust of the suspicious with my Diplomacy. However, that would put a serious damper in the DM's plans (IMO), so I just have to "roleplay" the character's skills.

This is a big part of the problem, I think, but an issue that will almost never be brought up by the DMs because frankly it points to a possible insufficiency in their game style. If the DM has decided that this is the big fight scene, they may be unwilling to let any level of diplomacy run them off track. If they have decided that this is the part of the adventure where the PC's get captured and go to jail, no bluff will get you out of it. And just hope you don't dare to ask to make a sense motive check on the NPC who is slated to betray the party later - the DM already went to the trouble of breaking the rules by not making appropriate bluff vs sense motive checks secretly, and he is not letting your skill emphasis get in the way of the ambush he has all set up...

A DM who decides that regardless of the stats he gave a character its just going to win a battle because he planned it that way would usually be considered a bad DM around here. But one reason that some DMs don't like to roll for skill checks is so they can do the exact same thing socially. While you may feel you're putting more emphasis on roleplay, sometimes it relegates roleplay to snappy banter while the actual course of the adventure is as prescripted as a bad video game.

Kahuna burger

 

[woodelf]

A ton of people find this weird, but this is what I do:

For bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, and sense motive (what I group as social skills) I assume you take 10 in the skill at all times. So if you have a +15 bonus to diplomacy, I assume you score a 25 against whatever the DC happens to be.

The DC is based on the standing (friendly through hostile on the DMG charts) of the target and is modifed in increments of +2 or -2 by the role-playing.

I like your technique--it certainly fits how i'd want things done if i were a player. But i have one question: why use Take 10 for social rolls, and not saves or attacks? What do you consider the defining difference(s)?

 

[kigmatzomat]

I like your technique--it certainly fits how i'd want things done if i were a player. But i have one question: why use Take 10 for social rolls, and not saves or attacks? What do you consider the defining difference(s)?

Not my game, but probably the tension of the situation.

You wanna smooze up a bartender? Take 10.

Sweet talk the bandit prince or a dragon? Roll.

Iffy points would be guards and other people paid to be wary, but I can't see why you couldn't take 10 on Joe Average. Of course, having done so there's no reason why Joe Average isn't taking 10 on his Sense Motive all the time.

I think it was shadowrun that had some good social success ratings. My books aren't handy but IIRC it went like:

botch they see right through you and find it insulting/threatening. You say the worst thing plausible for your character.

fail NPC resists your charms. Finds you a little weasel-y but par for the course.

minor success NPC is friendly and will bend the rules but will only take actions that have few, if any, consequences.

moderate success NPC is willing to look the other way as long as there's no personal risk.

Blinding success NPC will take moderate personal risks, but likely expects payment

 

[barsoomcore]

My players spend lots of time talking with assorted NPCs. We combine rolls and role-playing in a pretty fluid sort of way. A typical conversation will go something like this:

PC One​

I give him the evil eye as I walk in and stand across the room.

Me​

Okay, make an Intimidation roll... A 12. Okay, he leans back in his chair and stares back. He says, 'What do you clowns want?'

PC Two​

Sense Motive! Is he scared? I get a 27.

Me (making a Bluff roll)​

Yeah, you think he's a little worried, just hiding it well.

PC One​

We know you've got the staff. Hand it over and there'll be no trouble. Our friends will be here any moment.

Me​

Make a Bluff roll, you liar. Your friends all got killed by the guards.

(Bluff vs Sense Motive rolls -- Bluff improved due to previous Intimidation check but unsucessful)

Me​

He chuckles. 'Nice try. You want the staff, you try and take it, shortstuff.'

I can't quite get that to fit into any of the categories listed in the poll, but that's how we run things. Social skills are really, really important -- a good Sense Motive roll has bailed the party out of as many problems as a bad Bluff roll has gotten them into.

 

[takyris]

I roll Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate rolls myself, and then ask the person to roleplay (or at least describe, depending on time and importance of encounter) a result of the right level.

Example -- Decent-Cha character rolls well on his bluff. I say, "Okay, fire away, and have fun with a good solid lie."

Decent-Cha character rolls badly. I say, "You start convincingly and then utterly lose him at a critical point," and the player will make something up. As in, "Look, we have the papers back at the inn, but we can't go back and get them right now, so you should either let us in or go get the Duke himself to let us in... wait, check that, don't go get the Duke. I mean... er... roll initiative?"

If the player just rolls into it without declaring that he's trying beforehand, I usually assume that he takes 10.

But as long as it's clear how it works, I think any of the above methods can work -- as long as everyone is having fun and nobody is feeling like a) they put points into Diplomacy when they could have just roleplayed it well instead, or b) they didn't put points into Diplomacy and never get a fair chance to shine, RP-wise, as a result.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I roll Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate rolls myself, and then ask the person to roleplay (or at least describe, depending on time and importance of encounter) a result of the right level.

I always said you were the sensible one

-Hyp.

 

[barsoomcore]

I always said you were the sensible one

-Hyp.

So what are you -- the tough one, the ditzy one or the weird one?

 

[barsoomcore]

*barsoomcore acknowledges he may have too strong a fondness for girl-group cartoons...*

 

[Hypersmurf]

So what are you -- the tough one, the ditzy one or the weird one?

To be honest, I'm feelin' kinda blue...

-Hyp.

 

[takyris]

Awww... how come I have to be the sensible one?

And honestly, as a DM, there's a kind of ludicrous freedom to the dice sometimes:

P1: I want to bluff my way past the guard.

Me: Alrighty. (rolls, end result is a 36) Fire away, something convincing and smooth.

P1: Um... Hey, I left my ID at home, but you could let me in, right? Actually, I didn't leave it at home so much as have it get polymorphed with my gear, since I'm a Lammasu in normal appearance. And you know we Lammasu don't lie...

Me: Alllllllrighty. (rolls Sense Motive for guard, ends up with a 2) "Dude, really?" the guard asks. "Man, I've never met a real Lammasu before!" He insists on getting a quick woodcut done of you and him together, and then he lets you in.

P1: Rolled badly, huh?

Me: Oh yeah.