D&D 5E Somatic and Verbal - Value Added?

[mrpopstar]

That is an option, but it does still remove the possibility of, for example; The wizards hands are bound, "Oh, @#$% what spells do I have?" "GAAH, why do all my spells need somatic!" "Oh wait, I just picked up dimension door, sweet! Now I just need to..."

Granted, a lot of people may never use situations like these, and it might be worth dropping it in those games, I like having the option/information right there though.

Like I said, if a compelling reason exists, then we can make an exception to the general rule.

However, I actually find myself rather comfortable with the idea that all wizard spells require free use of at least one hand. Getting tied up is definitely something to be feared.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Only those spells that have a compelling reason not to have a verbal or somatic component would get the exception, the rest would change.

...but which spells have a compelling reason?

I'm asking because I think the ones with compelling reasons not to have a certain type of component are exactly those that currently don't have those components, thus there is no "rest" which would be changed.

 

[mrpopstar]

...but which spells have a compelling reason?

I'm asking because I think the ones with compelling reasons not to have a certain type of component are exactly those that currently don't have those components, thus there is no "rest" which would be changed.

Can you help me to understand the compelling reason why faerie fire and darkness do not have a somatic component?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Can you help me to understand the compelling reason why faerie fire and darkness do not have a somatic component?

Faerie fire because 1) faeries don't have to wave their hands about to make magic happen, so the spell named after them (possibly originally learned from them) doesn't require it either, and 2) it didn't have a somatic component in AD&D (though I should mention that at least during 2nd edition spell components were an optional rule rather than the default), 3) whoever in-setting originated the spell did so with the intent that it function even if the caster's hands were bound.

Darkness because 1) there is no more movement of the hands involved in the casting than to retrieve the material components (or the focus that replaces them) and hold them in hand while saying the magic words. (Actually, now that you've made me think of it, it seems like any spell that has both somatic and material components is being redundant because the material component needing to be manipulated is indication that movement of the hand is necessary - so only spells that require movement of the hand but don't involve a material component actually need the somatic tag.)

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I don't really find any of those reasons to be very compelling enough for a table not to use a simplified system for spellcasting components like what mrpopstar has written up.

Are there reasons that you would find compelling? Not necessarily just for these spells, but for any spell in particular.

 

[Azurewraith]

Im pretty loose with v,s,m if it makes sense ill shut it down I.e hands bound/gagged the m components are house ruled to ignore no one wants to be told no as they don't have bat at hand.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Not for any spell at all.

This makes your choice to interject into the conversation Mrpopstar and I were having seem very odd to me.

 

[MechaPilot]

Are verbal and somatic components worth the added complication?

Mechanically? Or fluff wise?

Other than components which are supposed to limit spellcasting by making the use of certain spells as rare as finding the components needed to cast them, I am fine with handwaving the need to find or buy them and track them on one's person. And components that are intended to be a limiter are things that I usually change so that the prominence of the spell does not hinge on random treasure (as is the case with using gems of X or greater value as limiting components).

That said, I would love it if more players were interested in describing what their characters say and do, and what components they manipulate during casting. I don't care to track spider legs for spider climb, but I'd love to see a player talk about dangling a spider leg into her mouth and swallowing it as part of the casting.

 

[Azurewraith]

Mechanically? Or fluff wise?

Other than components which are supposed to limit spellcasting by making the use of certain spells as rare as finding the components needed to cast them, I am fine with handwaving the need to find or buy them and track them on one's person. And components that are intended to be a limiter are things that I usually change so that the prominence of the spell does not hinge on random treasure (as is the case with using gems of X or greater value as limiting components).

That said, I would love it if more players were interested in describing what their characters say and do, and what components they manipulate during casting. I don't care to track spider legs for spider climb, but I'd love to see a player talk about dangling a spider leg into her mouth and swallowing it as part of the casting.

Components are only really are restricted for the first few levels after that a 10,000gp diamond pfft you find 6 in a day a twig, bat, poop? I have 10 well paid peasants to fetch those for me. It's a shame there are so few uses for gold in 5e I'm throwing the chance for my PC's to adopt a dilapidated keep and village in hope they can gold sink it.

 

[mrpopstar]

Faerie fire because 1) faeries don't have to wave their hands about to make magic happen, so the spell named after them (possibly originally learned from them) doesn't require it either, and 2) it didn't have a somatic component in AD&D (though I should mention that at least during 2nd edition spell components were an optional rule rather than the default), 3) whoever in-setting originated the spell did so with the intent that it function even if the caster's hands were bound.

Darkness because 1) there is no more movement of the hands involved in the casting than to retrieve the material components (or the focus that replaces them) and hold them in hand while saying the magic words. (Actually, now that you've made me think of it, it seems like any spell that has both somatic and material components is being redundant because the material component needing to be manipulated is indication that movement of the hand is necessary - so only spells that require movement of the hand but don't involve a material component actually need the somatic tag.)

Fine justifications, but I'm seeking something compelling from the system (aside from legacy).

Why must a bard provide a drop of blood to cast bane?
Why must a paladin provide an item distasteful to the target to cast banishment?

The components of each spell should be determined by class, not by the spell.